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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So sad it has come to this...

63 replies

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 20:31

Apologies but strap in as this is a complex one! Think 'Mean Girls' but a tragic version.

DD(13) has ASD and other disabilities and in Yr 8. Was in a friendship group with three others. All super lovely we thought and had been most of the way through primary school with a few minor wobbles in Yr 6. Beginning of Yr 7 one friend started to go off the rails a bit. Let's call her Sally. Sally had access to TikTok from 9 so had told DD what a 69 was, laughed when DD got out the shower and said 'I'm so wet right now', sent DD a few bitchy Snapchat videos we saw, started being a bit of a bitch towards her regarding her clothes etc. All at the beginning of Yr 7. Nothing major in isolation but definitely bitchy and we were concerned about her knowledge of things beyond her years so young. Around this time, DD also disclosed Sally had said her dad, who we knew to be a heavy drinker and at the pub most nights, had had to be locked in the spare room as he was so drunk, and over Xmas when the dad (split from mum) was depressed due to being distanced from a new GF he openly bragged about drinking to the point of being comatosed when she was in his care and only other drunk adults at a family party. Sally bragged to DD that at this party she stole alcohol and drank it (at this time she was 11). Thought at the time this was just bragging but when you see what happens next it's easy to understand why I now doubt this.

Bitchiness continued, and one evening Sally came over and cut about 3 inches off our DDs hair. Husband livid, so I confronted her with her dad there in a lighthearted way to suggest this was a bit unkind and Sally outright lied to my face in a way I found shocking, saying she hadn't done it. This was impossible as part of my daughter's disability means she can't reach the back of her head and needs help brushing her hair so I knew she couldn't have done this herself.

More instances of unkindness happened and DD started to try to distance after being shown some text messages between Sally and another one of the group, Betty, calling DD a 'bitch' and a 'catfish' for having her hair cut in a similar style to Sally. DD bravely speaks to the girls about this and Betty - essentially a lovely girl but easily led - apologises but Sally refuses to acknowledge she has done anything wrong despite being shown a screenshot of evidence.

Sally's mum is in a secret relationship since Sally was 6 with a man Sally has been told is a family friend. Sally finds out about the relationship by stealing her mums phone and finding 'I love you' messages. Sally cries to the 3 friends one night. DD calls me in and asks what she should say as all the friends are aware that Sally's mum has a boyfriend as it is obvious. I am increasingly concerned about Sally's welfare and think this must be why she is being so unkind towards DD as her home life is so dysfunctional.

Fast forward a few months. During this time Sally and Betty continue to act more like frenemies towards DD and we encourage DD to hang out with other friend in the group of four, Greta, who is lovely. Whilst checking DD's phone, I see unkind coercive type messages towards DD - telling her she is using the wrong emojis, laughing at her when she gets things wrong etc. Then I find talk of Sally and Betty getting drunk at a sleepover - and see video evidence after forcing DD to show me - , and another video of Sally doing shots in her bedroom. Around this time Sally's mum has an alcoholic brother who has been staying with her and he is arrested at Sally's mums house for being drunk and refusing to leave. I suspect Sally is processing the presence of the alcoholic uncle and the father's drinking issues by drinking herself (at this time she is only 12).

Sally is an only child - parents treat her like a perfect princess - so I know if I try to say anything she will deny and they will believe her so don't raise it, just encourage DD to stay away.

By the end of Year 7, DD increasingly difficult to get into school - starts school refusing and eventually admits to having suicidal thoughts - though we don't realise it is over the breakdown of the friendships at the time as she has always struggled with school due to ASD. Keep DD off school but every time she goes back more little bitchy things happen, all minor enough in isolation but we now look back and realise too much to cope with. With hindsight at this stage we should have definitely kept DD away from them completely but DD has no other friends and v v shy so would struggle to branch out into new friendship groups - and Greta being kind but still part of the group.

DD had convinced us to let her have Tiktok as the rest of the group of 4 have it. DD spends one afternoon looking at hours worth of inappropriate material, and afterwards admitted it was because Sally and Betty were talking about "fingering" and "sucking dick" and she thought if she understood it they would want to be her friend and start being nice to her again. 😔

DD then proceeds to have major intrusive thoughts regarding the content she has seen on Tiktok (DD is young for her age and quite naive) to the point where she is suicidal, can't get the thoughts to stop, won't leave the house or be left alone, even overnight. Try to get an urgent CAMHS referral. Text the mothers of the 4 girls as we are all quite good friends to explain what DD has seen and to ask advice about whether there are settings we should have used etc. Mums of Betty and Greta say their girls shouldn't have had Tiktok and remove it. Sally's mum, who has no rules for Sally, says the same although I suspect this is just for show in front of the other mums. We fear the girls will find out DD is the reason they have lost Tiktok and blame her.

A few days later when checking DD's Snapchat, notice Sally and Betty have made a Tiktok video, then removed DD from the group and quickly added her back on again. Assume Sally's mum has told Sally about the Tiktok thing or maybe Sally has stolen her mums phone again to read her text messages, but somehow Sally has found out about DD being the reason they have lost Tiktok. Given DD's mental state, I decide enough is enough and I have to disclose Sally's drinking and access to inappropriate material online to Sally's mum, who I am good friends with.

I speak to Sally's mum and her dad is called over. I mention the drinking, talk of fingering and the unkindness towards DD. Mum is v upset and apologetic but the moment I mention the drinking, the dad is immediately defensive suggesting this was impossible as he doesn't keep alcohol in the house and the mum clams up. Later, Sally denies all allegations and her mum tells me she "can't bring herself to believe her daughter would do or say those things" even when I tell her some of this I have seen with my own eyes. The mum also says she is worried for Sally to be around our DD for fear of her making up lies about her! When we admit to DD we have gone to Sally's parents she is distraught and says "she will destroy me".

Hear nothing from Sally and when DD next goes to Betty's house, Sally is strangely there too and 'being weird' according to DD, no longer swearing or gossiping about others. Sally and Betty side eye each other when Tiktok is mentioned. Then all three girls stop really contacting DD and we can't get her back to school in September. On the one day she goes to school, Sally tells DD she no longer has Snapchat. One night DD reports that Betty has removed DD from their form group chat after seeing Sally back on Snapchat. Sally removes DD from other social media and Betty does the same the following week which we consider to be indirect bullying as Sally seems to be actively turning the other girls against DD. Lies emerge every time DD meets up with Betty or speaks to Greta, but DD refuses to speak to Sally when she finds out she has denied all. Final straw is DD finds out via Greta that Sally has told all the girls in the form group, and some other in the year group what has happened which DD knows will be Sally's version of the narrative. DD tries to drown herself in the bath as a result of the shame of knowing this in November.

Fast forward to Christmas. DD has not really been back to school. Lost trust in us for going to Sally's parents. Lost all friends who have sided with Sally. Hasn't wanted us to speak to the school for them to deal as doesn't trust it will work out. Working with her therapist, I convince DD to let me disclose everything - the indirect bullying of Sally toward DD, safeguarding issues etc, in the hope school can sort. DD agrees to move schools and only then is brave enough to let us tell the full truth.

Disclose all at the end of the Xmas term. Deputy head involved and calls meeting for after Xmas but doesn't address any of the bullying issues or ask about the safeguarding at all, just wants to speak to DD to confirm she is happy to move schools. (Over Xmas, Betty's mum gets in touch to say that Betty has admitted to drinking at the sleepover and we ask Betty's mum is she would disclose to safeguarding officer in school which she does so we are surprised at their defensiveness). We call a follow up meeting and the school are v defensive, suggesting there is nothing to really investigate, despite us submitting a lengthy document laying out all the details, as if they think we are making it up! Feel as if Sally's family may have been to the school to deny all and perhaps tell lies about us to defend their daughter as otherwise we can't understand their reluctance to investigate. We are shocked at the school's apparent reluctance to take the matter seriously.

They finally agreed to investigate last week and now we are waiting to find out the outcome, but suspect the three girls will close ranks and not admit to anything. Feel super, super sad that our DD's whole world has been turned upside down by Sally and her dysfunctional life and the lies she has told to scapegoat our DD after we exposed her risky/ unkind behaviour. Also feel like DD/we are being gaslit by both Sally and her parents, and now the school.

Thanks for reading - and congratulations if you got to the end of this!

Basically, I just need a handhold and want to know: Am I being unreasonable to expect the school to be taking this more seriously now DD has finally been brave enough to tell the truth?

OP posts:
Fernsfernsferns · 29/01/2024 20:39

Oh wow.

sadly I think the lesson here is raise at the first sign of something being seriously wrong.

So - raise the bullying at start of year 7 with the school.

and then go to safe guarding at first report of something seriously wrong in Sally’s home life (alone with drunk dad last Xmas)

100% I’d change school. It’s too far gone now. Your DD is vulnerable and need a fresh start.

remove her mobile. Cut contact with Sally and Betty.

an out of school friendship with Greta might be possible down the line.

Yolo12345 · 29/01/2024 20:41

I couldn't get through your long post but this is a good time to teach your daughter to rise up above this kind of unpleasantness. If a girl is nasty to her, then she is not her friend. Teach her that there are varying degrees of friendship, from former friends, to acquaintances to close friends and family. Teach her to always go high, when they go low. Teach her how to say no. Teach her to be kind, wish these people well, but detach. Tell her that she might not find her tribe until later in life. ♥️

Youcannotbeseriousreally · 29/01/2024 20:41

This is just too long I’m sorry!! But from my speed glance I’d say - keep out of it!

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 20:44

@Fernsfernsferns thanks! I agree with everything you have said. Sadly, hindsight is, in this instance, a very wonderful thing. So much that I would have done differently looking back but we had no idea it would go this far... 😔

OP posts:
DinaofCloud9 · 29/01/2024 20:44

I'd be looking at either a new school or a whole new friendship group.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 20:46

@Yolo12345 Apologies for the length - I said it was a complex one 😂I love the 'when they go low, we go high advice' - I'm massive Michelle Obama fan! Thanks for your advice - totally agree...

OP posts:
Tinkerbyebye · 29/01/2024 20:48

Yolo12345 · 29/01/2024 20:41

I couldn't get through your long post but this is a good time to teach your daughter to rise up above this kind of unpleasantness. If a girl is nasty to her, then she is not her friend. Teach her that there are varying degrees of friendship, from former friends, to acquaintances to close friends and family. Teach her to always go high, when they go low. Teach her how to say no. Teach her to be kind, wish these people well, but detach. Tell her that she might not find her tribe until later in life. ♥️

@Yolo12345

I suggest you take the time to read the whole post before posting

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 20:49

@DinaofCloud9 Sadly it is going to have to be both I think, but DD has said this is what she would like now so at least she has come to this realisation. I am just so very sad her whole life has been turned upside down by this mess. 😔

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 29/01/2024 20:54

Youcannotbeseriousreally · 29/01/2024 20:41

This is just too long I’m sorry!! But from my speed glance I’d say - keep out of it!

Keep out of it? Perhaps read the OP.

sharptoothlemonshark · 29/01/2024 20:57

YABU to think that it is the schools job to investigate whether or not Sally is drinking at home . YABU not to have reported Sally's drinking directly to children's services the first day you heard of it. Sally is clearly a vulnerable child at serious risk, and you have done nothing about it at all

DinaofCloud9 · 29/01/2024 20:57

It's awful to see your child unhappy.

I think it's a good sign she is talking about a new school and a fresh start. I wish you and her the best of luck.

GoldMerchant · 29/01/2024 21:00

I feel really sorry for your poor daughter. It must be very hard to have her friendship group turn on her like that, and for her to be the one to have to start again at a new school. Especially as she struggles socially.

But I'm not really sure what you want the soon-to-be previous school to do about it now? Do you want Sally disciplined for cyber bullying? Social services made aware (school wouldn't tell you that anyway )? Do you want her to admit that she's hurt your DD and to apologize, because she probably won't do that, sadly. I think you're right that she has a very sad home life and is trying to get some measure of control back by hurting your DD - which absolutely doesn't excuse her awful behaviour. I think one day your daughter might understand this.

Going forward I think the important thing is that the new school are aware and that she breaks all contact with the other girls. Can the new school find someone kind to be a buddy for your DD?

I'd also get some factual books about sex and relationships for your DD. She sounds young for her age but she's likely to be exposed to more adult ideas through school. It's unfortunate that she ended up trying to learn through Google and Tiktok, so I think she needs a safe way to explore topics like this.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:03

@DinaofCloud9 thank you 🤗

OP posts:
TeenLifeMum · 29/01/2024 21:04

I’ve learned to never speak to parents about bullying. There’s only one time it worked out for me (I have 3dc). Most parents don’t want to hear and are just grateful their dc isn’t being bullied.

it’s a shame school is so awfully disinterested, thankfully we have a great school with zero tolerance. Go with your gut, focus on dd and support her. Let her know this isn’t normal. I’ve been teaching dd3 tonight that sadly, dc with the worst behaviour often have very dysfunctional and unhappy home lives so need some empathy alongside discipline. It’s really hard. I’m grateful my dc have chosen good friends but it can change in a moment. Dd1 finished year 10 with no friends (in her eyes) and spent the first week of the summer holidays sharing my bed for comfort. Her crime? She stood up to her friends who were bullying a boy with special needs. She doesn’t regret it and I’m bloody proud but she was so hurt. During the summer, others heard about it and started messaging her and she went back to school with a couple of friends and now has a new group.

I wish I could say it’ll get better but at 41 my work environment has a number of bullies. It’s exhausting and fucking childish. You can be happy and good at your job while lifting up others rather than shoving them under the bus. Apparently this isn’t a widely supported view point.

Newstarto · 29/01/2024 21:04

I’m sorry you’re worried about your daughter but I’m not sure why the school would investigate teenagers drinking outside of school. Isn’t that what they do? As is watching TikTok and talking about sex. What would you want them to investigate?

CatsTheWayToDoIt · 29/01/2024 21:07

I don’t really think it’s up to the school to investigate if a child is drinking at home if it’s only one occasion - children do experiment and you only have evidence of this happening once. And the whole TikTok thing - I do think it was a real error making it such a big issue. If you don’t want your daughter to have it fine. I totally understand as I don’t want mine on it either. But why make such a big deal of it and get involved? You’ve made life harder here for your child and I’m not surprised she’s upset with you. I read your post twice and it doesn’t sound like the girls have been that bad, to be honest. It’s not outright bullying, just girls not being inclusive. It’s not nice and it’s such a shame when they used to be close, but do you think you’ve handled it well? It sounds like this girl has a troubled home life, and I’m not sure you’ve been very supportive.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:08

@GoldMerchant I suppose we wanted Sally to have to be accountable for what she has done and be sanctioned in some way, and we have also asked for an apology although I agree we are unlikely to get one. We also have a son soon to be starting the school and we are concerned about Sally's social status in school and her capacity to manipulate so want it all documented and on record.

We know any social services referral won't be able to be discussed and we understand the need for confidentiality here.

Luckily I have a good relationship with my DD and am open about sex / relationships stuff which we have discussed since this happened. She knows she can come to me anytime to ask questions etc., but probably does need support in understanding these more grown up topics.

OP posts:
Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:12

@TeenLifeMum DD is my first teen and hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think I have learned my lesson that going to other parents is ever a good idea 😂You live and learn, I suppose!

OP posts:
MeMyBooksAndMyCats · 29/01/2024 21:14

Sallys a right bitch isn't she?

School can't investigate drinking outside school hours etc, however I would NOT send your other child to that same school.

Fresh start, for both your children away from sally. You do not want your son coming home and potentially mentioning sally and upsetting DD again.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:23

@MeMyBooksAndMyCats Sally is a total twat. And it's so cathartic to be able to say that 😂😂

OP posts:
slashlover · 29/01/2024 21:23

Just to confirm, you knew an 11 year old was talking about 69ing.

You knew her dad drank to the point of being comatose and having to be locked in a room and that an 11 year old was drinking.

Meanwhile she finds out her mum has been having a secret relationship and you're worried for her welfare.

At 12 you see video evidence of Sally getting drunk at a sleepover while her alcoholic uncle is staying and he gets arrested.

You know the 12 year old is talking about fingering and sucking dick.

Basically, I just need a handhold and want to know: Am I being unreasonable to expect the school to be taking this more seriously now DD has finally been brave enough to tell the truth?

Why didn't you go to the school 2 years ago when you knew about Sally's home life/drinking/sexual discussion. She's a child FFS.

slashlover · 29/01/2024 21:25

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:23

@MeMyBooksAndMyCats Sally is a total twat. And it's so cathartic to be able to say that 😂😂

Sally is an abused child without a safe home life. Her dad drinks until he passes out and her mum invites her alcoholic brother into her home.

sharptoothlemonshark · 29/01/2024 21:30

slashlover · 29/01/2024 21:25

Sally is an abused child without a safe home life. Her dad drinks until he passes out and her mum invites her alcoholic brother into her home.

this! And the OP has done nothing at all to help her.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:30

@slashlover you are totally right and I have to take that on the chin. She is a child living in a highly dysfunctional environment. To be fair I didn't include all details on what is a v long post but several of these things I had tried to take to the mum earlier but she was dismissive or didn't want to hear. I knew if I pushed then Sally would call my DD a liar and she would lose all the other friendships, which is, indeed, what eventually happened. I fully appreciate, though, that Sally is a very vulnerable child herself. As a parent, I was putting my own (also v vulnerable) child first which I think most parents would do but I accept your criticism.

OP posts:
fairo · 29/01/2024 21:33

I have no idea how kids are supposed to cope with snap chat tik tok and all this. Poor kids. Anyway the school won't give a shit about your child now she's leaving.

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