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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So sad it has come to this...

63 replies

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 20:31

Apologies but strap in as this is a complex one! Think 'Mean Girls' but a tragic version.

DD(13) has ASD and other disabilities and in Yr 8. Was in a friendship group with three others. All super lovely we thought and had been most of the way through primary school with a few minor wobbles in Yr 6. Beginning of Yr 7 one friend started to go off the rails a bit. Let's call her Sally. Sally had access to TikTok from 9 so had told DD what a 69 was, laughed when DD got out the shower and said 'I'm so wet right now', sent DD a few bitchy Snapchat videos we saw, started being a bit of a bitch towards her regarding her clothes etc. All at the beginning of Yr 7. Nothing major in isolation but definitely bitchy and we were concerned about her knowledge of things beyond her years so young. Around this time, DD also disclosed Sally had said her dad, who we knew to be a heavy drinker and at the pub most nights, had had to be locked in the spare room as he was so drunk, and over Xmas when the dad (split from mum) was depressed due to being distanced from a new GF he openly bragged about drinking to the point of being comatosed when she was in his care and only other drunk adults at a family party. Sally bragged to DD that at this party she stole alcohol and drank it (at this time she was 11). Thought at the time this was just bragging but when you see what happens next it's easy to understand why I now doubt this.

Bitchiness continued, and one evening Sally came over and cut about 3 inches off our DDs hair. Husband livid, so I confronted her with her dad there in a lighthearted way to suggest this was a bit unkind and Sally outright lied to my face in a way I found shocking, saying she hadn't done it. This was impossible as part of my daughter's disability means she can't reach the back of her head and needs help brushing her hair so I knew she couldn't have done this herself.

More instances of unkindness happened and DD started to try to distance after being shown some text messages between Sally and another one of the group, Betty, calling DD a 'bitch' and a 'catfish' for having her hair cut in a similar style to Sally. DD bravely speaks to the girls about this and Betty - essentially a lovely girl but easily led - apologises but Sally refuses to acknowledge she has done anything wrong despite being shown a screenshot of evidence.

Sally's mum is in a secret relationship since Sally was 6 with a man Sally has been told is a family friend. Sally finds out about the relationship by stealing her mums phone and finding 'I love you' messages. Sally cries to the 3 friends one night. DD calls me in and asks what she should say as all the friends are aware that Sally's mum has a boyfriend as it is obvious. I am increasingly concerned about Sally's welfare and think this must be why she is being so unkind towards DD as her home life is so dysfunctional.

Fast forward a few months. During this time Sally and Betty continue to act more like frenemies towards DD and we encourage DD to hang out with other friend in the group of four, Greta, who is lovely. Whilst checking DD's phone, I see unkind coercive type messages towards DD - telling her she is using the wrong emojis, laughing at her when she gets things wrong etc. Then I find talk of Sally and Betty getting drunk at a sleepover - and see video evidence after forcing DD to show me - , and another video of Sally doing shots in her bedroom. Around this time Sally's mum has an alcoholic brother who has been staying with her and he is arrested at Sally's mums house for being drunk and refusing to leave. I suspect Sally is processing the presence of the alcoholic uncle and the father's drinking issues by drinking herself (at this time she is only 12).

Sally is an only child - parents treat her like a perfect princess - so I know if I try to say anything she will deny and they will believe her so don't raise it, just encourage DD to stay away.

By the end of Year 7, DD increasingly difficult to get into school - starts school refusing and eventually admits to having suicidal thoughts - though we don't realise it is over the breakdown of the friendships at the time as she has always struggled with school due to ASD. Keep DD off school but every time she goes back more little bitchy things happen, all minor enough in isolation but we now look back and realise too much to cope with. With hindsight at this stage we should have definitely kept DD away from them completely but DD has no other friends and v v shy so would struggle to branch out into new friendship groups - and Greta being kind but still part of the group.

DD had convinced us to let her have Tiktok as the rest of the group of 4 have it. DD spends one afternoon looking at hours worth of inappropriate material, and afterwards admitted it was because Sally and Betty were talking about "fingering" and "sucking dick" and she thought if she understood it they would want to be her friend and start being nice to her again. 😔

DD then proceeds to have major intrusive thoughts regarding the content she has seen on Tiktok (DD is young for her age and quite naive) to the point where she is suicidal, can't get the thoughts to stop, won't leave the house or be left alone, even overnight. Try to get an urgent CAMHS referral. Text the mothers of the 4 girls as we are all quite good friends to explain what DD has seen and to ask advice about whether there are settings we should have used etc. Mums of Betty and Greta say their girls shouldn't have had Tiktok and remove it. Sally's mum, who has no rules for Sally, says the same although I suspect this is just for show in front of the other mums. We fear the girls will find out DD is the reason they have lost Tiktok and blame her.

A few days later when checking DD's Snapchat, notice Sally and Betty have made a Tiktok video, then removed DD from the group and quickly added her back on again. Assume Sally's mum has told Sally about the Tiktok thing or maybe Sally has stolen her mums phone again to read her text messages, but somehow Sally has found out about DD being the reason they have lost Tiktok. Given DD's mental state, I decide enough is enough and I have to disclose Sally's drinking and access to inappropriate material online to Sally's mum, who I am good friends with.

I speak to Sally's mum and her dad is called over. I mention the drinking, talk of fingering and the unkindness towards DD. Mum is v upset and apologetic but the moment I mention the drinking, the dad is immediately defensive suggesting this was impossible as he doesn't keep alcohol in the house and the mum clams up. Later, Sally denies all allegations and her mum tells me she "can't bring herself to believe her daughter would do or say those things" even when I tell her some of this I have seen with my own eyes. The mum also says she is worried for Sally to be around our DD for fear of her making up lies about her! When we admit to DD we have gone to Sally's parents she is distraught and says "she will destroy me".

Hear nothing from Sally and when DD next goes to Betty's house, Sally is strangely there too and 'being weird' according to DD, no longer swearing or gossiping about others. Sally and Betty side eye each other when Tiktok is mentioned. Then all three girls stop really contacting DD and we can't get her back to school in September. On the one day she goes to school, Sally tells DD she no longer has Snapchat. One night DD reports that Betty has removed DD from their form group chat after seeing Sally back on Snapchat. Sally removes DD from other social media and Betty does the same the following week which we consider to be indirect bullying as Sally seems to be actively turning the other girls against DD. Lies emerge every time DD meets up with Betty or speaks to Greta, but DD refuses to speak to Sally when she finds out she has denied all. Final straw is DD finds out via Greta that Sally has told all the girls in the form group, and some other in the year group what has happened which DD knows will be Sally's version of the narrative. DD tries to drown herself in the bath as a result of the shame of knowing this in November.

Fast forward to Christmas. DD has not really been back to school. Lost trust in us for going to Sally's parents. Lost all friends who have sided with Sally. Hasn't wanted us to speak to the school for them to deal as doesn't trust it will work out. Working with her therapist, I convince DD to let me disclose everything - the indirect bullying of Sally toward DD, safeguarding issues etc, in the hope school can sort. DD agrees to move schools and only then is brave enough to let us tell the full truth.

Disclose all at the end of the Xmas term. Deputy head involved and calls meeting for after Xmas but doesn't address any of the bullying issues or ask about the safeguarding at all, just wants to speak to DD to confirm she is happy to move schools. (Over Xmas, Betty's mum gets in touch to say that Betty has admitted to drinking at the sleepover and we ask Betty's mum is she would disclose to safeguarding officer in school which she does so we are surprised at their defensiveness). We call a follow up meeting and the school are v defensive, suggesting there is nothing to really investigate, despite us submitting a lengthy document laying out all the details, as if they think we are making it up! Feel as if Sally's family may have been to the school to deny all and perhaps tell lies about us to defend their daughter as otherwise we can't understand their reluctance to investigate. We are shocked at the school's apparent reluctance to take the matter seriously.

They finally agreed to investigate last week and now we are waiting to find out the outcome, but suspect the three girls will close ranks and not admit to anything. Feel super, super sad that our DD's whole world has been turned upside down by Sally and her dysfunctional life and the lies she has told to scapegoat our DD after we exposed her risky/ unkind behaviour. Also feel like DD/we are being gaslit by both Sally and her parents, and now the school.

Thanks for reading - and congratulations if you got to the end of this!

Basically, I just need a handhold and want to know: Am I being unreasonable to expect the school to be taking this more seriously now DD has finally been brave enough to tell the truth?

OP posts:
Fernsfernsferns · 29/01/2024 21:35

slashlover · 29/01/2024 21:25

Sally is an abused child without a safe home life. Her dad drinks until he passes out and her mum invites her alcoholic brother into her home.

Yes agree. Sally’s story is very sad.

she needs school and social services to intervene.

id say that to the school and say you’re not fussed about the rest as you are moving DD elsewhere.

dont send your son there.

@Lala25 vent here all you need to. But don’t ramp it up with you daughter. No / no more ‘this has turned your life upside down’

matter of fact.

  • Sally is being unkind as she is in serious trouble and needs help.
  • its not personal though even though it feels it
  • we all need boundaries and you now wish you’d taken more action sooner.
  • but its also positive to realise a situation is wrong and not safe for you and then leave it and fine a better one.

and that’s what you’re doing now. She’ll be ok. She can recover.

but she needs you to project calm and confident support to achieve that.

and act more strongly and much sooner if there’s a next time!

sharptoothlemonshark · 29/01/2024 21:35

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:30

@slashlover you are totally right and I have to take that on the chin. She is a child living in a highly dysfunctional environment. To be fair I didn't include all details on what is a v long post but several of these things I had tried to take to the mum earlier but she was dismissive or didn't want to hear. I knew if I pushed then Sally would call my DD a liar and she would lose all the other friendships, which is, indeed, what eventually happened. I fully appreciate, though, that Sally is a very vulnerable child herself. As a parent, I was putting my own (also v vulnerable) child first which I think most parents would do but I accept your criticism.

But why are you talking about speaking to her mum? Why didn't you report the situation to children's services years ago, and repeatedly? You have colluded in the abuse and neglect by turning a blind eye to it. Saying you are prioritising your own child is just a smoke screen. Your child is not at risk, and you can report another child without taking anything away from your own.

I am shocked that you have just allowed this situation to continue for Sally and have made no attempt at all to initiate any protection for her

Please say you have contacted children's services now. If you don't want to do so directly, then call the NSPCC who you can report anonymously to

Octavia64 · 29/01/2024 21:35

As you have discovered, not all parents share your own ideas of what is and is not ok behaviour.

In general parents don't react well to being confronted by other parents about their child's behaviour and it sounds like you have really seen this,

In future it's worth reporting stuff like that straight to school as they will refer onto social services if necessary.

Some parents if confronted about their teen's misbehaviour will respond by hitting them and beating them so it's always a risky strategy.

I'm sorry it got this far. I hope your DD is able to make friends when she moves school.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:36

@sharptoothlemonshark as I mentioned to @slashlover I have missed out some details here but did try to help via the mum but missed that bit out as it was such a long post. I promise I wasn't just ignoring Sally's situation and had sleepless nights about how to intervene without my DD losing her friendships. When I eventually did disclose everything to the mum in full this totally backfired - as I feared it would - and my DD lost all her friendships as a result so this wasn't such a straightforward scenario as it seems.

OP posts:
Mookie81 · 29/01/2024 21:38

People moan about schools and social services not doing enough, always ignoring idiots who allow their children to use the internet inappropriately and don't report massive, in your face safeguarding issues they are fully aware of 🙄.

sharptoothlemonshark · 29/01/2024 21:38

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:36

@sharptoothlemonshark as I mentioned to @slashlover I have missed out some details here but did try to help via the mum but missed that bit out as it was such a long post. I promise I wasn't just ignoring Sally's situation and had sleepless nights about how to intervene without my DD losing her friendships. When I eventually did disclose everything to the mum in full this totally backfired - as I feared it would - and my DD lost all her friendships as a result so this wasn't such a straightforward scenario as it seems.

So you say, but I don't understand why you are "disclosing" to the mum, or asking the school to investigate, and have not gone to children's services? What you are describing happening to Sally is serious abuse.

Mookie81 · 29/01/2024 21:39

Maybe you should have had sleepless nights about the fact you did nothing to help a vulnerable child?

Stressedafff · 29/01/2024 21:42

I think you need to wipe the slate clean now and try and move on. Gunning for a vulnerable child like this isn’t helping anyone, she’s not gonna feel any safer and probably will engage further in self destructive behaviour.

Echo another poster when I say it’s probably a good idea to start teaching your DD about sex and relationships. She’s getting older now and the last place I’d want my kid to learn about all that is TikTok/snapchat/google.

Devonshiregal · 29/01/2024 21:44

Wow. Like…wow.

sorry you’ve been going through this. How upsetting for you all.

secondly, sally and her psychotic parents need no more attention. Done. Whether the poor girl is being let down by them or not is none of your concern. Your daughter tried to frown herself? Where did she even get this as an idea?

literally cut them all off. I beg of you do not send your son to this school. Your daughter needs to see there’s a life beyond the school. Get them as far away as possible.

of course allow your daughter to talk about HER feelings towards it all but don’t have these people in your life. They’re in the past.

just show your daughter that some people are c*nts and the only thing to do is remove them. And if you can’t remove them, remove yourself.

home school if you have to!

kids have a habit of forming strong bonds and thinking friends mean everything but we all grow up and realise that some people don’t deserve friendship. Don’t do this “friendship” and favours by acting like it should still be on her mind/in her vicinity.

it’s done. Sally is a twat. She’s show who she is so bye bye sally. On wards and upwards.

she’s shy but will meet new people. Better people. Best time to learn better off alone than with people who make you feel lonely.

slashlover · 29/01/2024 21:48

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:36

@sharptoothlemonshark as I mentioned to @slashlover I have missed out some details here but did try to help via the mum but missed that bit out as it was such a long post. I promise I wasn't just ignoring Sally's situation and had sleepless nights about how to intervene without my DD losing her friendships. When I eventually did disclose everything to the mum in full this totally backfired - as I feared it would - and my DD lost all her friendships as a result so this wasn't such a straightforward scenario as it seems.

Why would you go to the mum who happily allowed her alcoholic brother into her home and allowed him to be arrested from there? Why would you not call children's services or the safeguarding person at the school? You had VIDEO EVIDENCE of her drinking at 12.

Hankunamatata · 29/01/2024 21:49

Urgh some teens suck. I had to go through with my end of Yr 7 child what the sex slang terms meant as he has asd and was using inappropriate terms and telling his brother. Had a very factual conversation around it. Also covered respect themselves and respecting partners. I found a good book called sex ed. Its a bit controversial as it has trans stuff in it but I foundnit useful explaining stuff to dc.

Snap chat seems to be the work of the devil

Dc school has an asd unit. Perhaps look for something similar for dd

mathanxiety · 29/01/2024 21:49

Do your utmost to get your child into another school. Don't rest until you've accomplished this.

You should have reported Sally's inappropriate access to sexual material on Tiktok and also the drinking as soon as you became aware of it. You should have reported to school safeguarding and local social services.

mathanxiety · 29/01/2024 21:51

Fernsfernsferns · 29/01/2024 21:35

Yes agree. Sally’s story is very sad.

she needs school and social services to intervene.

id say that to the school and say you’re not fussed about the rest as you are moving DD elsewhere.

dont send your son there.

@Lala25 vent here all you need to. But don’t ramp it up with you daughter. No / no more ‘this has turned your life upside down’

matter of fact.

  • Sally is being unkind as she is in serious trouble and needs help.
  • its not personal though even though it feels it
  • we all need boundaries and you now wish you’d taken more action sooner.
  • but its also positive to realise a situation is wrong and not safe for you and then leave it and fine a better one.

and that’s what you’re doing now. She’ll be ok. She can recover.

but she needs you to project calm and confident support to achieve that.

and act more strongly and much sooner if there’s a next time!

YYY to this.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:55

@Fernsfernsferns thank you for your wise advice - I agree with all of this and appreciate your compassion and understanding in what has been a nuanced, complex situation to manage. She will definitely be okay and will definitely recover eventually! ❤

OP posts:
SleepyRooster · 29/01/2024 21:57

Fgs bin the social media. You are in control of what she looks at. She's a child.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 21:57

@SleepyRooster trust me all social media firmly binned!

OP posts:
HateMyselfToo · 29/01/2024 22:01

Read the whole thing. Like you say, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Time to move on and look to the future. New school and new start.

I'd also make sure your DD has a few different friendship groups, by having some clubs outside of school. That way if there are inevitable wobbles with one group, she still has friends to talk to.

Scouts or Cadets, something that will build her confidence and show her that friendships can be a positive thing. If cost is an issue, Cadets is very affordable - about £1 a week and scout groups have plans in place to help people who can't afford it attend. Advantage of these being mixed groups, (unlike something like gymnastics which is predominately female) is that they tend to be less bitchy.

I hope things work out. It's a positive thing that she talks to you and you know all about it. Some parents don't find out until it's too late.

LittleMissSleepyUK · 29/01/2024 22:05

Could you move your son to start at the new school also? Just so you have absolutely no potential contact with any of them?

TedWilson · 29/01/2024 22:05

Can't quite believe what I just read it's horrifying.
Agree Sally is seriously in trouble with her home life. Whilst your priority is of course your DD I would probably make my parting shot to her old school along the lines of I hope you will be investigating the chaotic background including alcohol abuse I have altered you to with this child, cc the governors.
Don't let your son go to that school. Get your DD the help she needs and hopefully she meets some nice people.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 22:10

@LittleMissSleepyUK this would be really hard as my son had a gorgeous set of friends all going off to this school. Something to think about though for sure...

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/01/2024 22:10

You didn't bother mentioning drinking, neglect and sexually inappropriate behaviours in a child for years? And even then, didn't bother to do it yourself, you got somebody else to do it?

I wouldn't call that exactly going high.

bastin · 29/01/2024 22:11

TLDR

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 22:12

@TedWilson Utterly horrifying! Imagine having lived this for the past year... it has been devastating and we are still picking up the pieces with DD's fragile mental health now 😔

OP posts:
TeenLifeMum · 29/01/2024 22:16

@Lala25 i wasn’t criticising - been there, done that and got the Tshirt. I once told a friend that her dd was flipping the bird at my dd and thought she’d want to know… apparently she didn’t want to know. She blanked me on the playground at pick up (year 2dc) then one day came and screamed in my face in front of all the other parents waiting for dc. I handled it very maturely… said nothing and managed to get to my car before bursting into tears.

Lala25 · 29/01/2024 22:17

@NeverDropYourMooncup It's very long story but I did mention this, on several occasions, to the girl's mum. I didn't realise until much later that she seemed to be in denial and protecting the ex-husband. I thought at the time I had disclosed this on several occasions to the person supposed to be keeping her safe. It has now all been disclosed to social services once I realised her mum wasn't taking it seriously. But I appreciate your concern and understand what you are saying.

OP posts: