New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

[Stressedgiraffe]

We've changed management structure so my new manager wants me in the office. Ideally once a week but might settle for every month.
I've been there over 2 years. I wfh permanently but my contract says HQ.
I live 5 hours away always have done. They knew where I lived when I started. I go into the office about every 3/4 months for a few days .
Could I push for a change in location in my contract or do you think I'm screwed?

@WhatNoUsername but it’s not the employers problem that the OP lives 5 hours away ? Everyone must surely expect to have to go into the office sometimes even if it’s a long way away… That’s the choice you make when you take the job isnt it?

Not if you live 5 hours away it isn't

Surely you don't sign a contract to say you'll work in an office five hours away then?!

You’re in the exact same position as me. I was hired remotely years ago due to my specialism being hard to source and oddly enough, it was fine before this year when suddenly it’s bums on seats presenteeism and buying expensive coffees again to placate often micro managers or a C suite who love throwing their weight around to an audience. If performance is stellar, I don’t get it. Before anyone says ‘oh but young people, water cooler chat etc’ it won’t work on me. Young people are exceptionally tech savvy, I’ve trained them. Water cooler chat is atrocious to a lot of us who just want to get on with our work due to it needing full concentration. And as for ‘someone will hire from another country’, they were doing that before and a lot of jobs are coming back to the U.K. due to how rubbish outsourcing was.

For those saying about contracts, a lot of us have standard contracts with company smarter working policies that seem to suddenly have gone AWOL since the anti wfh media focus. So it’s not as simple as ‘why did you take the job’. A lot of specialisms such as tech hire from across the U.K. due to not having the finances for high wages nor the mass amounts of specialists.

Unfortunately, I’m looking for a new role and suggest you do the same. It sucks but Managers who thrive on presenteeism and the social aspect of ‘water cooler’ chats won’t be placated with attendance once a week. It starts that way and before you know it, you’ll be passed over for the staff who are there every day. I say this from experience.

I don’t understand it but it’s where we are. Best of luck on your job hunt as much as it sucks.

And this is the issue. Yes it allowed people to apply for jobs they previously wouldn’t have. On the flip side it enabled firms to recruit the best people, not limited to their geographical location or willingness to relocate.

Theres always going to be people in the workforce who think work is the be all and end all. For most it’s something that pays the bills, hopefully a few luxuries and if you’re really lucky some job satisfaction. Covid caused a lot of people to reassess these priorities. The “cost of living crisis” attempted to push people back into the mentality of a job over life again. But for most that horse has bolted esp I. Professional services.

Most people being told to commute 5 hours are just going to look round for something more suitable. It’s likely it’s going to be the employer who loses out most here.

YABU. If your contract says you are based at Xx office, of course you have to go there.

If she'd agreed it with her manager when taking the job that it was fully remote, you wouldn't expect to be 'tricked' into signing a contract that stated otherwise. It's on the company, not her, if they weren't clear about her working conditions.

Speak directly to line manager/HR/whoever hired you about this first, see where that goes, then speak to a union. It would also make an interesting story for any HR based publication.

My advice is to request to change your contract to WFH. They can insist you come to the office if your contract states you are based at that location and they would not have to pay for you to attend.

Just be aware in case the change in location has an impact on your pay range.

I'm an EA (ex legal sec) who has WFH/hybrid since Covid. Worked for a couple of private companies and now government (all temp, all contracts) who mostly were/are fine with hybrid. I now really want a hybrid role - just because at my age (52), commuting takes its toll, plus it's more expensive, I do have health conditions too.

My 2 best friends, one has been recovering from a stroke for the past 5 years, she's also a carer for her DM who she lives with. She mostly WFH but goes into the office when she has to, she's also worked weekends (not in her contract) and early mornings/evenings), other one WFH a lot but goes into the office when she has to but has to do payroll which means confidentiality so WFH.

I'm similar to you though, I need/want full concentration. When I'm in the office a lot of younger people love the water cooler culture and chat/joke a lot. I've been there/done that, done the socialising after work, it's just not relevant to me now. I get more work done from home than in an office. The last global place where I worked, they had 2 days in the office, 3 at home, but were trying the 'free fruit/snacks/expensive coffee machine/office days out/sports days' presumably to tempt people back in.

Similar happened to me. Was recruited during COVID. Everyone worked from home. I discussed how I wanted to work from home beyond COVID and it was agreed. When I got the contract it didn't say anything about working from home. I questioned it and manager said that this was the standard contract, so she couldn't get it written into the contract but confirmed that we agreed which days I was going to work from home and it's never been an issue. However, she is just about to change jobs, so I'm hoping whoever is coming in next will honour the agreement, too. I still have the email confirmation but who knows. Meant to add that everyone else is now back in the office. If I had to be fully in the office now too, I'm not sure how to make it work but I would also struggle to find a job with the current set up.

Something similar happened to me … I took a 100% wfh job but contract said office based. My immediate Line manager lived 90 mins from the office and didn’t ever want to come to the office. But then we got a new head of department - he was a two hour drive away but also wanted us in on the first 8 working days of each month. I attempted to organise this within my team for month one, with several exceptions everyone grudgingly agreed to do between four and eight days. The HoD then decided he had a medical appointment on day 3 and bailed on us… which I thought was pretty hilarious.

Subsequently HoD decided it wasn’t worth enforcing as about 75% of the department said the only reason they put up with the job and salary was the advantage of wfh as it fits so well eg walk the dog at lunch or do school run (dropping off at 8.45am and home by 9am to start work is a really nice advantage).

My employer hires in more remote locations, paying below market-rate salaries - which works really well for a cheap, motivated, fully remote team with lots of working mums who would simply have quit if manager made a big fuss about return to office. The spectre of everyone quitting en masse scared the new HoD so we were permitted to continue wfh and it wasn’t mentioned again!

Many companies (including civil service) are pushing towards more office bases as they are realising that it’s more beneficial on the whole (clearly not every role but on the whole). As others have said question is did you apply for a role that was advertised as being 5hrs away and didn’t apply for a home working contract? Assume so, and that will mean they won’t pay your travel and hotel. I would ask about a reasonable adjustment based on your husbands condition (assuming you help care for him) and take it from there. People do need to be careful taking jobs with bases so far from home. I wouldn’t dream of applying for a job 5hrs away from my home.

Same here - they gave me the standard contract to sign, but I was hired on a wfh basis. This is what the job advert said and what was communicated in the interview. I'm based in Birmingham and my company is in London.

They haven't asked me to come to the office/work hybrid, thank God.

If they do, I will have to resign - there's no way I could do that commute, especially having small children.

Op why did you only give scarce detail?

Everyone asking the same questions...

That’s a big reason why companies want people back in, because those water cooler youngsters need the older more experienced colleagues around to learn from, like you had

I would ask to get this moved to the legal/employment board.

You'll get lots of people opinions here but this is a contractual query - you only actually need advice from professionals who can advise on customs and practice.

It could mean your contract has changed because you've been doing this arrangement for so long.

Could put you in a strong bargaining position for work to pay for travel and hotel if you do want to go in once a month etc.

This.

A lot of people were hired on standard contracts but told that they would be 100% homebased. Especially during 2020-2022. Most people take what they are told, and what is / has been practice as standard.

Unless you have been previously burned by an employer, you may not think to check the fine details of your contract and take your working agreement on trust.

I'd speak to the manager and explain the situation. See what comes of it.
How was the job advertised?
What noises have been made since you started and now about wfh being a covid contingency or BAU?
And when you were given your contract, did you query the location of your usual workplace? Seeing as you live so far away I find it surprising if you didn't at least send an email to the hiring manager/HR to ask.
Custom and practice does play a role here - that is, even if your contract/job description says one thing, if you've been doing something different for a long time your employer can't suddenly insist you go back to the terms outlined.in your contract/job description.
However, asking for you to come in once a month is really not a lot and I think you'd struggle to argue that's not acceptable because of custom and practice.
It's immaterial that your employer has always known where you live. If you take a job and the contact states a usual place of work then the onus really is on you to ensure that it's commutable (perhaps not every day or even every week, but for regular visits).

If she'd agreed it with her manager when taking the job that it was fully remote, you wouldn't expect to be 'tricked' into signing a contract that stated otherwise. It's on the company, not her, if they weren't clear about her working conditions.

Where does it say she was tricked? Nobody can make you sign a contract against your will - presumably OP read it over and knew her place of work was actually five hours away from her house?

Agree. There's no benefit to people who've never heard of implied terms and conditions telling you that contract says end of. You need specialist advice before anything else.

Once you know that, you can further review your options. It may be that even if the office work can't be contractually enforced, you're better off looking elsewhere anyway, but you need to know your legal position first.

You probably don't need 2 nights in a hotel. I'd stay in a hotel the night before and then drive straight home after the office. I'd rather be driving home than sat around in a hotel room.

You lucky they allowed you to wfh so long if your contract.says office based.. five hours is a very long commute...

I work in HR and we have this situation as many people moved during Covid. No her employer probably would not cover travel and accommodation. These are not valid expenses as she is office based, presumably at that office and knew that from signing her contract of employment. We won’t cover costs in those circumstances. If they wanted to they could order you back full time and refusal could result in dismissal.

As OP does go into the office every few months then wfh custom and practice for permanent wfh would be more difficult to argue than if she had never worked in the office.

I would probably ask if you can continue to do your office days in a block every few months. I would expect to foot the bill for transport and accommodation myself though. You mention you have a disabled DH. You could ask for your caring responsibilities to be taken into consideration and have your contract reviewed to see if they could accommodate permanent wfh as part of flexible working, for this reason. It’s something my organisation have accommodated.

On a personal level I’ve not been in the office myself for 2 years (or won’t have by the time I finish maternity leave). I’ve also moved house and it’s going to be a bitch of a commute once a week so I do get it. When I actually have to do it I’ll have to balance the commute against the rest of the job and what else is on offer.

You really think I want to be in the office to teach the younger inexperienced colleagues stuff? They don't need me. There are way more colleagues who can teach them what they need to know. On my salary too, which is usually reduced if you're hybrid, why should I come in more than say 2-3 days a week max?

And then, the worst of it, is when they start getting woke with you when they talk and other stuff, using words like 'triggering'. Please.

I hope they don't pay your expenses for it!! It's not their fault you live 5 hours away. Imagine if other employees got wind of that. They'll all be submitting their daily commute costs! 🤣

I think a lot of people will be in your situation, e.g. with a bitch of a commute.

From pp's here too, long commutes where they signed up to WFH before, means they'll have to look for another job.

So, ultimately, does this mean employers lose out on good workers simply because they want hybrid/wfh model? Or not.