New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

[Stressedgiraffe]

We've changed management structure so my new manager wants me in the office. Ideally once a week but might settle for every month.
I've been there over 2 years. I wfh permanently but my contract says HQ.
I live 5 hours away always have done. They knew where I lived when I started. I go into the office about every 3/4 months for a few days .
Could I push for a change in location in my contract or do you think I'm screwed?

“ custom and practice is being violated”? @TorringtonDean Irs absolutely clear that an employer can negotiate changes to contracts. It’s not a violation of anything is there’s a strong business case.

@TizerorFizz yes and if an employer wishes to force an employee out of their job they have to make a redundancy payment.

@TorringtonDean Actually no they don’t. It’s jobs that become redundant. Employers cannot keep the job and get rid of the employee. If they get rid of an employee there must be a watertight reason. Being asked to leave home once a month is probably reasonable if the employee is compensated.

What they can do is negotiate to vary a contract. I described the process pages ago. If an employer no longer needs a job to be done, the person doing the job gets redundancy payments, if applicable. Perhaps you might like to study employment law?

I enjoyed that he appeared to be sitting at home while he said it.

This is true, but the reality is if they want to get rid of someone they find a way. I’ve seen it many times.

@Teateaandmoretea Yrs there are poor employers and poor employees. My local council had an employee move to Spain. WFH gone too far! Usually successful negotiation requires both sides to give a bit. I’m pretty certain what an employment lawyer will say and what ACAS will say. They already have it in their guidance! It’s obvious employees do need to give and take a bit in return for exactly the same from the employer. If there is stalemate the employer will start to think that employee is replaceable. Or redesign the job. However that’s why negotiation is always best for both.

Of course things can change - but employment laws protect employees rights and if the changes would make it unfeasible for you to carry on doing your job (e.g. company relocates halfway across the country) you'd be entitled to a redundancy package.

In this case, employer would struggle to show that employee can't do her job WFH so employee could argue that it was constructive dismissal if they try to make her come in more often.

@IWouldRatherBeOnHoliday That is nit the case here. Plus the job must be going for redundancy to be paid. She can argue it’s constructive dismissal but once a month is hardly a huge issue and not a significant change if there are good business reasons for it. We have to understand that employers have “rights” to manage their businesses too. Therefore, again, it’s better to negotiate and not dig in. It’s not a given the employee would win in this case if negotiation has taken place. It comes down to what’s a reasonable request.

employer would struggle to show that employee can't do her job WFH
You simply do not know this. OP has not said the role, nor the change tp the role, nor what she is expected to do in the office, nor what business changes prompted the change to the role.

No fan of Alan Sugar- but you totally miss the main point he made. He said that we learn more and better by working with colleagues, with other strengths and ideas, bouncing off each other and sharing experience and talents. And in this sense, I agree that regular working in the office as part of team is important. Depends on the job or rôle, of course.

Sorry, but why should't he? He is being interviewed, not working!

For someone who's both broadcaster and politician, the clear distinction you draw here doesn't exist. His TV programme benefits from him keeping a high public profile, and he does media on this specific subject because he's trying to politicise the issue of remote working. Hence he's had a pasting over it.

One thing I have always been clear about when thinking about working arrangements is that none of us are slaves. We have a choice about who we work for and a contract is a negotiation not a diktat. We sell our time and skills for a certain rate. Our employers don’t own us. So if an employer wants to change the arrangement that’s in place they can, but they risk losing a good employee. Maybe that is the aim of this move, but maybe it’s more about this manager trying to get some brownie points. First you need to work out which it is. Second, stick to your guns. They headhunted you for a remote role. If they want to change that they should compensate you or negotiate a compromise or they risk losing the skills the hunted you for! It takes a lot of time and money to train up a new recruit. In the worst case, you will have to leave, but is that this aim of this exercise from their point of view?

The complete opposite to OP has happened to a 34 year old who lives in a bed sit. Her job before Covid was every day in the office, then covid came WFH. The world wide company closed London office. Now she has no choice but to to work from home for no extra money, paying extra for heating. She is also missing the company of her colleagues during the day.

@Reigateforever extra heating but presumably no travel costs?

TorringtonDean The transport card that everyone carries in London for monthly use does not cover any where near heating costs.

I think you need to read the OPs case again. She lives 5 hours away and had a disabled husband. Once a month is a big deal for her.
She also states that it is just because her manager wants people in the office more, rather than a change in the work that necessitates her increased presence.
I assume you are pro office-based working and don't like WFH arrangements. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are being unfair to OP here when there are some pretty big downsides to her going to the office with no evidence it will actually benefit her employer

Not necessarily pro office based at all. Just not a fan of employees refusing to negotiate or employers too for that matter. I think it’s possible to get carers. Many people do. Again once every 2 months might be reasonable and as the OP hasn’t mentioned it, we have no idea of the business, her job, her role regarding mentoring or training or anything else. I tend to believe in the “no man is an island” approach and everyone pulling together. There are huge dangers in the job being redundant with a reorganization.

Sorry I've only just realised people are still posting. Many thanks.
I've got a meeting with her next week. I'm going to propose that I come up about every 6 weeks and see if that's acceptable to her. I've spoken to my team (who have a different line manager) and they haven't been asked to come in and they all have company HQ on their contracts. I don't do training or mentoring nothing that needs f2f.
I'm going to start looking for something closer to home that is remote/hybrid.
Dh can currently look after himself but needs me close by if something happens (seizure/fall) though his condition will deteriorate over time.

@Stressedgiraffe That sounds like a good starting point. Do you have an alarm for your DH to press in an emergency? Wrist band or pendant?

“I think it’s possible to get carers”.

I have a disabled family member, it really isn’t easy at all. Private carers are extortionate and isn’t the whole issue with social care that we don’t have enough care staff?

I understand you may not agree with WFH but home care is gold dust hence why so many people are now having to balance caring responsibilities with work. It’s also why we have so many elderly blocking (I hate that word but can’t think of another) the NHS beds after care as they have nowhere to go.

”Most people do (find carers)”.

Actually it usually falls on women who end up either leaving the workplace or only working the minimum that they can leave their dependent alone for.

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/article/1849107/six-10-unpaid-carers-quit-work-cut-hours-survey-reveals

https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/women-7-times-more-likely-men-be-out-work-due-caring-commitments

So whilst I understand that employer and employee need to reach an agreement and WFH indefinitely may not suit employer, it isn’t as simple as outsourcing care in the shambles of the UK social health system right now. It’s a bit blase and kind of out of touch to presume so. Being a carer is intense with barely any support.

Head of HR here and if I was asked to get involved by this manager I would tell them that they really need to show a clear reason why the OP can’t work from home when they’ve been doing so for years successfully, need to think about the risks as this is now likely custom and practice and more importantly, should they insist on digging their heels in to this particular hill, be fully prepared to lose the OP and struggle to recruit a replacement. Then I’d ask them (in nicer words) not to waste my time with basic management stuff and ping them some studies on the 73 percent of employees who are considering changing jobs In 2024 and what matters to then in a role.

In the interests of balance I would also suggest the OP make a flexible working request so we could have any decision documented and change contracts accordingly to reflect any changes. And I’d show them the recent case of a woman in a senior role losing a tribunal to wfh fully and ask them if they really couldn’t see any value in meeting up with the team physically once a month (even if that value was just keeping dinosaur managers happy). I’d maybe suggest an agreement on expense.

I would probably ask both parties to consider a compromise at once a month onsite if there was value in them doing that. But wouldn’t push it if there wasn’t.

Then I’d go and get on with my actual job which is not, as people continually seem to think, this sort of caper.

That’s all very well but I would ping back that a possible recruit from the 73% that want to change jobs might well be more than happy to come into the office one day a week! Loads of people would love this! It’s not all doom and gloom with recruiting if the job is attractive. Wfh 4 days a week is to many. However, of course there needs to be a good business case to change but there might well be.

Well said 👏

flexible working request comes to mind - esp if you are a carer! shes prob just a misery guts manager...