New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

[Stressedgiraffe]

We've changed management structure so my new manager wants me in the office. Ideally once a week but might settle for every month.
I've been there over 2 years. I wfh permanently but my contract says HQ.
I live 5 hours away always have done. They knew where I lived when I started. I go into the office about every 3/4 months for a few days .
Could I push for a change in location in my contract or do you think I'm screwed?

As a neurodiverse single mum, remote working is the difference between me being able to provide a good standard of living for myself and my kids and....not. I know from personal experience that productivity is negatively impacted by being in an office, not the other way round.

It's always astonishing to see how hateful some of the posters on MN are towards other women though.

Same. I used to work in an office and really struggled with people chatting, having the radio on etc. I did love my colleagues but found the environment massively distracting and would end up catching up on work at home anyway, so was relieved when they made us all WFH in 2016 and haven't looked back since!

Neurodiverse too since childhood.

One thing that bugs me the most about the anti WFH/hybrid brigade is how ableist it often is.

We want more disabled, neurodiverse, long term health issues etc to remain in the workplace (government banged on about this) but then don’t want to offer any flexibility to the working practices. Also the people who bang the diversity and inclusion drum seem to be the actual worst of putting their virtue signalling into practice. Especially if they’re the types who relish in person socialisation, they can’t understand those who don’t.

We say there’s a motherhood penalty and women are leaving decent careers in droves but we don’t want to upset the old school ways of being out of the house 7-7. Women should want to be just like men instead of carving a new way of working which honestly, a lot of dads would want too. I won’t want to be a man in the workplace, I want to be a woman.

We say ‘AI will take over’ but don’t seem to have gotten to grips with using tech appropriately to train other staff members or keep in touch according to some posters.

We say about COL and not wasting money but then live in commuter belts spending a fortune on public transport to get to a dingy office whereby most companies have cut any amenities to entice you in. Hot desking is cold and sterile and also ableist again because it doesn’t take into account reasonable adjustments.

We say productivity is low due to WFH but I am yet to see real evidence of this. What I have seen in my own work is poor Managers using WFH as a stick when it’s been their rubbish abilities to manage teams and growth appropriately. I also think there’s an anger in this country currently which is causing quiet quitting because everyone’s had a gutsful of the shower running our lives and taxing us to the hilt for a crap standard of living. But this is purely my opinion at this point and anecdotal so I could be incorrect.

'Most people'. Why are you generalising like this? It would be perfectly fine for you to just say this is how it is for me and the people I'm around, and leave it there. You can't possibly speak for the majority when that covers such a wide breadth of sectors, roles and people.

I agree with every single word @IdleAnimations

I haven’t read all the comments, plus I’m not UK so different legal system.

In my country we were forced into wfh with Covid. We had extensive lockdowns, and around that work places were encouraged to have staff wfh for public health reasons.

While I know lockdowns were minimal in comparison in the UK I expect many individual companies went remote for the same public health reasons.

Here - having been wfh during the extended Covid response doesn’t give you a leg to stand on as workplaces revert to requiring people attend their office. That’s well understood to have been a public health response - and there has been extensive leniency in having people revert to their role’s BAU as individual circumstances around Covid are so varied. But now that almost all public health measures have been removed - workplaces don’t really need to consider Covid.

Proper legal advice is recommended, but I would be surprised if a company’s Covid response was taken as a precedence and not allowed to end.

yeah i wouldn't even take a job now that didn't have remote most of the week even if it was only a 20 minute commute away!

My husband bailed out of 3 interview processes because in the initial call they said no to any WFH - jobs were all in London within 45mins from the house - but he does nursery drop off 3 days a week and wouldn't make it in for 9 so it would all be on me to sort all drop offs then!

and he likes to finish at 5.30 a few days a week and already be home to spend some downtime with toddler before bed!

Life is too short to be missing out on family life - especially when most jobs offer flexibility these days!

OP i'd continue as you are - from home and argue your case - but id be quietly looking for a new job and bailing out! the whole thing is soured now anyway - i wouldn't want to continue there

Yep ^^

Don't forget the daily fail anti-wfh bots are mainly men who often think women shouldn’t be taking jobs off men anyway.

Plus there are the ones with commercial property empires who don’t want to lose their millions.

Interesting, but doesn't really apply in the OP's situation, as it wasn't a COVID response - she was hired as a remote worker, the job advert and spec was for a remote worker, her manager has confirmed that she knows she is hired as a remote worker, her company pay for her travel to the office.

Ex husband had a manager like this. Seemed to be that he wanted to show off his "Big Manager in charge of a team" credentials by having people in the office, doing as he told them. Very insecure person, and the job was totally beyond him, rumour had it that he lied about his experience to get it. Caused chaos, implemented systems that meant productivity tanked and failed probation.

Wonder if this is the case with her, "How can people see I am in charge if there is no one here for me to be in charge of?!!" Also changing projects, smacks of "See, I am in charge!" even though it makes no sense. Some people want to change things as soon as they take over a role just because they can, ridiculous. Is she on probation?

One thing that bugs me the most about the anti WFH/hybrid brigade is how ableist it often is

We want more disabled, neurodiverse, long term health issues etc to remain in the workplace (government banged on about this) but then don’t want to offer any flexibility to the working practices. Also the people who bang the diversity and inclusion drum seem to be the actual worst of putting their virtue signalling into practice. Especially if they’re the types who relish in person socialisation, they can’t understand those who don’t

100% It's amazing how quickly remote working could be put in place for everyone when covid was rife, but when my disabled, in chronic pain, wheelchair using dd asking to do her uni work from her room as she was in a lot of pain prior to it was oh no, that's too difficult to implement.

I hope you have success with acas @Stressedgiraffe It does sound like you have a good case and your new manager is, like all people in their new senior roles, trying to make their mark.

People that want to slack, will do it anywhere, irregardless if in the office or at home.

At my old company we were all office based. I had a colleague who vanished from their computer for hours at a time and there was one colleague who repeatedly managed his other business, being a landlord, loudly over the phone while at work. He also had a phase where he would extend his lunch break playing badminton (without the consent of managers).

Were these colleagues ever disciplined? No.

This company doesn't allow wfh.

For the last 2.5 years I have worked for a different company where I'm completely home based. I always achieve my targets, so my managers are very happy with me.

Point is: Lazy people will be lazy anywhere.

I don't use wfh to look after my children, we pay for a nursery.

I'm also glued to my computer when I'm not on my lunch breaks or morning or afternoon break.

Sometimes I get up and go to the kitchen to make myself a coffee or go to the toilet. But that would happen in an office as well.

My post kind of derails the thread, but I'm responding to people who said everyone wfh is less productive.

It's not true, it clearly depends on the type of employee/person you are.

This is a legal advice question for ACAS or your union. Mumsnet is a terrible place to ask it because they won’t answer in legal terms just with their feelings and for some reason a lot of people here utterly hate wfh. Seek proper advice.

In the meantime anything you currently have in writing from when you took the job will help. Do you have any emails discussing your distance from the office and how it will work? It also is good you have over two years service - they can’t just sack you without due process.

There are several of us that are HR professionals or employment lawyers on the Work board and Legal Matters.

AIBU is not the place for questions like this.

You’re not being unreasonable. Far too many people think you just have to do what your contract says but the points above on custom and practice are highly relevant. It’s clearly established you’re a remote worker. Hopefully ACAS helped you.

You could say you’re happy to consider new employment terms but the more they want you to travel in, the more they have to pay you (OF COURSE!!!).

Otherwise go and get employment law advice and if this tallies then call their bluff on it. Keep working as you always have and it puts it onto them whether they want to dismiss you and open themselves up to a legitimate claim or if they want to change terms and you refuse then they need to enter into a settlement agreement with you for you to leave - which is a better financial result for you than just quitting.

I hope the ‘back in the office / I’d be giving you a P45 / lick the company boot’ types are not managers, though it would explain why there are so many toxic worksplaces run by wanna be dictators in M&S finest viscose, with zero managerial or people skills, ruining companies left and right.

You have your emails stating remote working with occasional visits plus they head hunted you on specific terms. Unless HR is as thick as some of the David Brent fantasists on here, they will need to reign your new manager in from taking her petty grievances out on you. Speak to ACAS and do not back down.

Hahahaha! I was wondering the same. MN appears to be overrun with angry middle managers who yearn for a return to the 'lunch is for wimps' 80s.

@horseyhorsey17 A lot of Daily Mail readers with limited reading skills and even more limited workplace skills getting their daily dose of self importance on WFH threads lately.

Ironically exactly the kind of people who make everyone else want to work from home! I’d rather drown myself in the water cooler than make small talk round it with those types.

Why do some people on here hate WFH so much? If it doesn’t work for you and you are less productive at home, then don’t do it. It works for some of us very well.

I have two kids, work from home full time and manage to successfully run a team but also do nursery drop off and pick up. Before WFH, I would have needed to take a step back in my career, now I don’t.

To echo fellow posters OP, if you have done this for two years, custom and practice is relevant. Your manager has said she is going to HR, so await for their response, contact them yourself if necessary. I’m sure it will be resolved.

This is exactly why I wfh. I cover EMEA and APJ and am managed out of NA.

I'm glad your contract is clear, so she can go fuck herself on that one, but it sounds like a situation you might want to get out of anyway given her latest scheme.

😂 a MAN who is a MANAGER hath spoken.

@Sallyh87 Why do some people on here hate WFH so much? If it doesn’t work for you and you are less productive at home, then don’t do it. It works for some of us very well.

Reasons I came across:

1. Jealousy (I can’t do it so neither should you be given this option!),
2. brainwashed by the rat wheel, believes being physically present means working “productivity”, likely older generation,
3. very cynical and does not trust people believing if people are left alone they wont work and need to be whipped into shape, maybe cos they are like this themselves,
4. work is their life and wants to “socialise” at the office so everybody should hear them blabber about their personal life all day long,
5. alternative motive (e.g. transport company, retailer, service industry owner)....

@easylikeasundaymorn what the big important husband managers say is fact!

I wonder how many big important husband managers and their contemporaries who are managers are fucked off not because worker drones are less productive WFH but less available to pick up the slack that the big boss men throw down the line when everyone is in an office. They probably even have to make their own tea now 😢

All the big boss husband managers I have worked with have been the laziest and most incompetent part of every team. Less chance for them to fail upwards these days, that’s the issue, because they have to show what they’re actually doing.

All the Margots on here parroting the WFH guff need the Jerrys not to be found out as overpaid and underworked before the house is paid off and the pension kicks in.

I understand why many people in many jobs now WFH or hybrid work.

OP isn’t being asked to go in all the time. A monthly request seems pretty small. Even once every 2 weeks seems small regardless if where you live if your contract isn’t specifically WFH.

There are benefits if working in-person with other people that can sometimes be gained from just once or twice a month together. It’s not unreasonable for employer to expect that from someone who isn’t on a full WFH contract. Any tbh, why anyone would take a job that is more than a couple of hours away (or whatever journey they are prepared to do occasionally) unless they have a full WFH contract bemuses me. If your contract isn’t exclusively WFH you have to be able and prepared to go in sometimes. Where you live or move to is your own choice and not that if the business and the business shouldn’t be impacted by this….especially when once or twice a month is a small ask.

Lots of people on this thread seem to be answering as if OP were being asked to go in every day or denied any opportunity to WFH. She will continue to be at home the vast majority of the time.

When people want to push back against this and claim they’ve established themselves as a home worker, rather than do the journey once a month, I really wonder about them as workers. It’s not questioning their efficiency or productivity at home…they are probably excellent in this regard. That’s not the point. The point is that work isn’t about being an island and being together in person delivers benefits which might only be fully realised by having people, together. Someone who isn’t willing to engage with that on a once-a-month basis, doesn’t seem to want to be part of the team in the full sense of the word. Their being in occasionally isn’t just about the impact on them, but the benefits for other team members too - it’s about a range of things.

Sometimes, workplaces have suddenly demanded much more than what has become the norm. That’s problematic. But in the case if OP it doesn’t sound like an u reasonable request to me.

Once a month is still a big ask if it’s a five hour commute each way. Stick to your guns OP.