New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

[Stressedgiraffe]

We've changed management structure so my new manager wants me in the office. Ideally once a week but might settle for every month.
I've been there over 2 years. I wfh permanently but my contract says HQ.
I live 5 hours away always have done. They knew where I lived when I started. I go into the office about every 3/4 months for a few days .
Could I push for a change in location in my contract or do you think I'm screwed?

I’m a manager and I can wfh if I choose to a couple of days a week. We have a minimum three day office attendance requirement per week and most people do this with no issue as they like the team/environment, appreciate the value of visibility, and the expectations have always been clear. Post Covid, some people have batted against it and make things really, unreasonably difficult in terms of office attendance. They are the ones who roll out of bed and pitch up at the laptop wearing their Oodies, often refuse cameras on, are absent from Teams for hours, and use their work time as childcare. Sadly, it’s people like this who have made managers suspicious of employees who stick their feet in the ground about WFH, certainly in my experience it’s little to do with the manager being bothered about whether or not they personally can be at home or otherwise!

I’m with you OP it’s not reasonable.

This post has very good advice @Stressedgiraffe

some people are missing the point asking why she agreed to a remote role 5 hours away 😂 are they not understanding what remote is? The clue is in the word remote!

Some people have remote roles with companies abroad!

If HR are smart they’ll side with you because this manager just seems to randomly have a bee in her bonnet, and is throwing her weight around. it doesn’t seem like a company wide effort to bring remote workers into the office so they’ve got no real reason to back her.

On the basis that it was advertised as a remote role, you can push back, even if that's not in your contract. You need to find the original job spec/ advert that you received and send that to HR.

It’s a bit of a kick in the dick OP. I think all you can do is try to have wan open and honest discussion about why you wfh. I think a once month visit is a good middle ground.

OP I know it’s too late now but please in future when you start a new role get these arrangements in your contract. Same as you I WFH 5 hours away and go into the office once a month (which I’m happy with) and they pay my expenses for it. I made sure the working and expenses arrangement was all in my contract (to protect against situations you describe).

Is she deliberately trying to force you out of your job, not just being fussy about presenteeism? This is looking like it IS constructive dismissal. Maybe she gets a bonus for cutting jobs?

Without knowing exactly what you do, what she has assigned you to, and what the business reasons are for that, it is impossible to know if this is reasonable or not. What is clear is that you were buoyed by people on the thread telling you about rights that may or may not apply, and so you responded badly enough that she is unwilling to hold conversations with you solo. Your chances now of getting a compromise have been badly reduced, so that was pretty silly of you. Why on earth couldn't you just say you would take it away to think about and then research your actual rights? You really must be better behaved in the HR meeting; the job exists to achieve business objectives,; your ultimate right is to be paid off to end your employment, but you don't need to rush to that without actually calmly discussing what is wanted of you and why.

You sound as though you are talking to a child, and seem to have read a hell of a lot into “calmly stated” and “pushed back” from OP

@GRex the OP’s livelihood is at stake and custom and practice is being violated. “Must be better behaved” is downright patronising. It sounds like she has rationally asserted her rights.

According to ACAS, customs and practices can become part of an employment contract if:

• The term is generally well-known in the business.
• The term is considered reasonable.
• The term is certain.

This text was originally written by MAD-HR Ltd. Copyright © 2024 MAD-HR Ltd. All rights reserved: https://www.mad-hr.co.uk/blog/custom-and-practice-is-your-business-at-risk

I don't know why everyone is piling on to you here, it sounds pretty clear this was a remote job and has been done as such for years. New boss sounds like a nightmare, good luck with her. I hope it all gets sorted in your favour.

Its because a lot of people on this thread fundamentally think remote working is some kind of piss take, and don't actually want OP to be able to enforce any contractual rights to it that she might have. Hence the gleefully breathless predictions about redundancies, promotions and whatnot.

Admittedly, it would've also helped if OP had explained in her first post that the position was advertised as remote and that she's got emails talking about how that would work. But there'd probably have been a fair amount of nonsense even if she had.

@TizerorFizz in that case why would they negotiate a WFH contract? That would be incredible incompetent management. If you moved role or were promoted, this might be the case but then I’d expect a new contract in those situations and the changes to be negotiated as part of the new role.

I am very sad that you were headhunted for a job with precise details for working from home, which now have been revoked and you are not getting the support from the MS vote.

Certainly promotion for some wfh folk doesn’t look likely

and that is a problem because...

Has it ever occurred to the ambitious crowd that they need the unambitious ones to work too? It's a pyramid. For you to get a better job, someone else needs to stay in a lower one. So some of us are quite happy in our well paid WFH jobs without significant promotion prospects.

As for your update OP, I had similar in a previous job. Boss changed the priorities of the team which meant my job changed. I didn't want to do the changed role, so I left. I would have been crap at it so it was better to leave before being pushed say a year later.

She also wasn't keen on my WFH in that role but had to swallow that aspect because I was recruited on that basis and my contract DID only require one day a week in the office.

But I wouldn't rely on HR to stand up to her.

From the bingo we’re only missing ‘if you’re remote they could get someone from a Third world country to do it instead’.

OP I hope you are getting positive answers.

Dont worry OP many people wfh, you aren’t the only, it is only increasing, not being phased out as some people here call it to be. It is here to stay for most office jobs, we certainly wont be going back to fully in person, and as it is so ubiquitous, it wont really effect promotions, that’s just dinosaurs or bitter people talking.

It's sort of related to this post, but I saw Sir Alan Sugar on news this morning saying he didn't want remote workers because they can't learn as well as they can by being at home in their pyjamas as opposed to being in the office.

In some ways he's true, sometimes I don't wake up immediately and get showered and dressed. But I'm certainly on the ball. And I work as hard, if not harder when I'm WFH and I also was inducted/trained at home too. Dinosaurs like him push the clock back years re progress in this area (wfh/Hybrid).

Ugh l saw that.

Who cares what he thinks? Shows him up to be really out of touch. Apprentices didn’t look over impressed either.

I didn't see the Apprentices responses! But yes, so out of touch. Twat! I bet he's the type that doesn't really understand flexible working, reasonable adjustments etc but has to implement it in his workplace for legal reasons - and complains about it behind the scenes.

No one cares what he thinks - but he is typical of a certain Old School network (who thank god if they're the older type are ageing, dying out, retiring) who all mostly have these sorts of outdated attitudes.

They were like this🙄

And so they should be!

@CantHaveTooMuchChocolate I did say this pages ago - contracts and conditions of work can be varied. It’s never that the terms of a contract cannot be altered by negotiation. Of course an employee can dig their heels in. However changes are negotiable. If they were not, how would you expect companies to close offices, relocate or merge? Clearly everyone can be subject to change and that includes WFH.

The manager ended the conversation and stated that HR were needed. How can you get "rationally asserted" from that? It very clearly shows the manager found her attitude in that meeting to be a problem. You have no idea of the role, the contract, the working practice to date, the changes, nor the reasons for change, yet you refer to "her rights". You don't know what rights she has or doesn't have in this situation. She would not be taking unnecessary career risks with the advice I gave her to stay calm, ask for thinking time, and then get detailed advice quietly.