To say taking Uni slow is a privilege

[GioRioMam]

Today I met up with a friend, her DD and my DD. Her DD is 24 and did the course at uni my DD has just been given a conditional offer for.
Friends daughter did the 4 year option with the year in Industry, her placement year has resulted in the job she is currently in. She then took a gap year to travel, then a masters to further specialise.
She is from a much better off family. DD will be the first in our family to do a degree, we won’t be able to fund more than the 3 years.
DD is pretty upset she won’t get to take the slower option, especially the masters, but really she needs to be working ASAP.

AIBU to say being able to take 6 years after finishing school to enter the workforce properly (friends child had part time jobs) is a massive privilege?

Not sure placement years make it more expensive… I did a placement year course and my fees for the middle year were much lower (20% of other years), and I earned a salary for the year of my placement. This was back in 2012 but i earned £15,000 for the year, many on my course earned around £18,000 - one earned £27,000!

The year in industry she’ll be earning. I did a placement year and it helped my career prospects massively.

A gap year she would surely fund herself? Pretty sure most people do.

Again the masters there are loans available for this is you can’t fund her.

I honestly don’t think taking 6 years to fully enter the workforce is that mad tbh.

I know you have other children to consider as well as your daughter when it comes to college/university costs. I know your daughter is doing a degree in say x and it's a 3 year degree. I would advise that your daughter do a degree with a period of work placement as it will be valuable to her. She will meet people working in the area, see how things are done and get a chance to gain work experience in her degree.
I know several people who where offered a jobs with the company they got their work placement with. Even if they can't offer your daughter a job she has gained experience and can discuss this at interviews.

I know companies as well that will pay for a master's part time. The company will expect you to stay with them for a particular period of time otherwise you have to fully or partially pay the cost of the masters.

It's not a privilege for the students who have health problems and other issues that prevent them from full time study and need them to do it slow. Some kids really have to battle their way through a degree to get one at all. I think it's a privilege to be able to take the fast route.

AIBU to say being able to take 6 years after finishing school to enter the workforce properly (friends child had part time jobs) is a massive privilege?

You do realise being able to spend three years after finishing school undertaking further education is also a ‘massive privilege’, don’t you? Also, part time workers are, quite obviously, a ‘proper’ part of the workforce. And you said yourself this girl’s year in industry has directly led to her job now. The only bit that doesn’t sound like hard graft on her part with a directly beneficial outcome is the gap year, but it sounds like that isn’t the part your daughter is most envious of. Tbh if your daughter wants to do a Masters after graduating she is likely to find a way to do it with or without your help, but she’ll very likely remember that your attitude to it was ‘not for the likes of you’.

I have a different perspective as both of my DC had friends that seemed to put off getting a proper job for as long as possible. They had to get one eventually and the Masters, year in industry/uni abroad and travelling didn’t get them into better jobs, it just meant they were 2-3 years behind career wise and pension wise.

they also had bigger debts. They weren't particularly financially privileged though, student loans, part time jobs and working holiday visas funded their delayed entry to adulthood.

Having three children is a privilege. All of them going to university is too. Fuck, running water is a privilege at that.

Can you empathise with her. It is sad she doesn't get the industry year. It sounds like it would be really helpful. And so is a Masters.

How much more would the placement year be? Most are paid. I get what you say about the gap year and masters, but I’d be surprised if the placement years didn’t work our roughly cost neutral?

Your daughter can apply for the sandwich course now, and decide at the end of year 2 whether she does the placement or not. This is by far the better way than deciding not to do the placement before she even set for in the place!!
Many placements are paid, and she can still get a loan for the reduced tuition fees that the uni will charge.
I say let your daughter follow her preference, and make these decisions near the time.

Can I just ask an ignorant questuon- what sort of jobs/degrees is this where a year out/more study is normal?

My world is quite different and I'm already a bit anxious about affording to support my 2 to go to uni. It's very clear we're not in mn income bracket! But I hadn't realised until this thread beyond 3 years was normal in some circles.

YANBU to state your funding boundaries OP. YABU to insist that your daughter 'has to be working' straight after uni. If she, as an adult, chooses to do a Master/s/take a gap year under her own steam it's her business surely. As long as she pays her way.

You're also mixing up several different things.

A placement year costs very little, is usually paid. If with a big company sometimes the same as a graduate salary. It'll be invaluable in helping her get a graduate job. You'd be actively holding her back by forbidding this.

The other things are not necessary. Fair enough for you to not fund.

There are loads, it's impossible for anybody to list them all here.
A 'year in industry' in most degrees is not necessary per se, but can be very helpful in securing a job.
A lot of places also hire their placement students into graduate roles.
Medicine, nursing etc all involve placements as part of the degree so not really in this category.
Some other industries like journalism involve lots of unpaid 'internships' after graduating which is even worse!

Bear in mind that a placement is not guaranteed. If you cannot find a suitable one you just continue with 3rd year as normal. So there's nothing wrong with doing a degree that allows the option. Looking for a placement also gives you experience in the process of looking for a grad job.

You really need to look at the specific career. Placements, spring weeks, internships, there are lots of different ways. The important thing to note is that for many industries the plum jobs are so competitive some form of experience is a huge leg up.

Yes it is. But I would ask that you dont decide for your daughter that she can't afford it and needs to be in work ASAP just because you can't afford to supplement the same.

The slow course is just one more year. Can she work more to save for it or take on private debt. Are the fees the same. Could she swing better paid work because of it while doing it.

The masters are now eligible for student loans and private unless that's changed again, and often inc. a certain amount of paid assistant work.

The gap year can be workaway or work hoilday visa to Aus, NZ or Canada. Aus is paying very good wages at the moment and could help her save up for masters.

I know it must be loads but it isn't common with a straightforward history degree for example is it (and i know healthcare nurses/ots/etc all do it anyway unpaid integrated across their course)and I didn't do one or know anyone who did so just trying to work out what type of careers it's normal for.

Is it if you do an engineering degree or accountancy degree ie career specific?

I also think having 3 kids is a massive privilege. My dd is the result of ivf. I would have loved more than one child. Perspective.

This....

I've seen this happen so many times... Where bright kids who would do well are completely ground down by parents who haven't bothered to find out options.....

That all the narrative has been about parents not wanting /able to support... Where the REALITY is completely different...

There are lots of different funding /working methods... Don't close her down by you not knowing...!!

genuinely don't think we could support an extra year here either. I'm googling it and even I'd they're paid a 1k a month that wouldn't support rent as well as living costs.

OP I'm genuinely surprised at these replies and I agree it would be a massive privilige and not one that we xould afford.

I couldn't afford to do a masters when I finished uni as I needed to work but I did do postgraduate qualification later a different route once working and earning.

And I imagined that's the route most without the "privilige" of family money go down surely?

Yes, those two are degrees in which many unis offer a placement year.
You don't 'need' it. But it's a huge advantage.
I don't know what you mean by 'normal'. If you mean,. are there degrees where most people do a placement year, I can't think of any.
But degrees with a practical application, many unis offer it. So if you want to do a placement year you have to choose that.

Academic unis usually don't. LSE doesn't for BSc Accounting and Finance but Portsmouth does. Similarly, Computer Science at Cambridge doesn't offer a sandwich year, but others do. There are caveats though, Bath while not an RG is very highly regarded in the industry and a placement year is offered.

If no placement you can always go for summer internships.

I understand your worry. some careers need a lot of support. It's not usually those that have a placement year in the degrees though. Things like performing arts etc the 'practical' element is integrated but it's still not always easy to make a living.

@GettingBetter2024 placement years are quite common now on many degree courses.

If OP’s DC is only going to get minimum loan, then parents have reasonable income. Also helping with university costs is something you should factor in when having children. You see it mentioned it on here every time when people ask if they should have another child, especially if having more than 2 children.

I know not all children will end up going to university and if you are on a low income they will get maximum loans, so less requirement for parental top up (although student will probably need to have part-time job to supplement the loan) But it is definitely one of the additional costs you should think about

Of course we've thought about it! Hence posting on threads like this a couple of years before my child will go to uni.

Many many families do not have the ability to save lots for uni. Truly. We are one of them. Both graduates but due to low incomes and health issues we are not in mn world.

Hence asking what sectors this is "normal" in as we did straight academic degrees which at the time it wasn't "normal" and friends did nursing/ot/etc in whcih it was included.

The idea that it's normal to support a child through an extra year or two genuinely is new to me.

I'm aware my kids may well want to go into professions higher earning than mine so don't want to disadvantage them but I didn't realise this was common. Hence the questions.

And yes surely to agree with OP "taking it slow" is an enormous privilige ?!

Great if parents can support more than 3 years but 3 years will be a stretch for many surely?!

Other routes such as going straight into work with a degree alongside (friends child in a different area is doing this) or if you're lucky enough to have a uni on your doorstep so they can live at home would also be great!

I've tried googling and it seems mainly "business management" type degrees or very scientific ones? Like engineering?

I feel like this is a whole option I wasn't aware of (I knew language students sometimes did a year abroad which again I thought was mainly the privileged option but mine aren't linguists!)

@GettingBetter2024 a placement year in a well-paid industry is a good idea if struggling for money as these will be paid.
Also.. well, not well-paid industry but young relatives doing a farming degree had a ball on their placement year. Slightly above minimum wage, all food and accommodation paid for, and a job for after graduation.

That's why when deciding between similar unis I always advocate a placement year. If you can't get one that pays enough to live on, you just carry on.

Master's are money spinners for unis, Yes, some specialised ones are useful but the majority are often not necessary for the job market. I always find those that have at least worked before going back to do one are more employable. Of course, if it's something like AI that's going to lead to £££ crack on.

https://www1.essex.ac.uk/programmespecs/Details.aspx?prog=13864
https://www.rau.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/bsc-hons-agriculture-placement-year
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/2024/structural-engineering-and-architecture-industrial-placement-year-meng
https://www.gre.ac.uk/undergraduate-courses/engsci/forensic-science-with-industrial-placement-bsc-hons

The placement is obviously going to be something career related. The humanities won't usually have one because they are not training for a profession. But some universities also have it

https://www.uea.ac.uk/course/undergraduate/ba-history-with-a-placement-year
https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/english-literature-placement-year-ba-hons-q301/2024/

Presumably because their graduates might end up unemployed otherwise.

I suppose you could shove all non-science, non-humanities under 'business management'.

I'm confused - the 4th year in industry is usually paid? I don't get why she will only be able to do 3 years and not 4. I personally think more work/life experience before a masters doing a masters is the way forward anyway. It's all a bit bizarre really - you don't have a crystal ball your daughter could do so well in her placement she is both offered a job and a sponsorship for her masters - who knows? She might start uni and hate it. Why on earth and you and her lamenting about something so far in the future?