Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

@labpit the career choices will likely be influenced by parent’s careers and those of their friends rather than the school.

I think they’ll try their best. Whether or not they will manage to is another matter. It wasn’t long ago the party voted to abolish private schools altogether, then dropped that plan when they realised it wasn’t workable. Then they decided they’d strip schools of charitable status. It seems to have now dawned on them that this plan wasn’t workable either, and wouldn’t mean VAT would be payable anyway, so that idea has also been dropped.

The latest idea of changing the VAT legislation might be possible but is likely to lead to unintended consequences. It’s also against EU law as far as I’m aware, so I’m not sure how the party says on one hand they don’t plan to deviate from EU law, but on the other says that they will tax education.

The plan is forecast (optimistically) to raise a relatively tiny amount of money (around 1% of the state education budget). In reality, I suspect that any gains will be wiped out with legal and admin costs. Let’s be honest though, the policy is not about raising money. It’s seen merely as a populist vote winner by those who want to attack the private sector.

The more sensible idea of reducing inequality would be to improve state schools to such a level that people don’t feel the need to use the private system. Most parents using the private sector aren’t paying thousands a year for the fun of it.

I wonder how the party plan to tackle the “inequality” of those using the state system but paying for private tutors, or those buying expensive houses in catchments of good state schools.

There are long standing and multi factorial issues that come into play, such as university selection processes etc.

As I say, having worked in the NHS for many years, and been involved in medical education, it's not in any way a given that privately educated students are the best doctors in the end and many are hammered in many ways by their sheltered and privileged experiences.

Labour should be focused on raising the profile of state schools in their own right, instead of effectively taxing private schools.
The money raised by imposing VAT on fees won't be easy to quantify, variables such as attrition back into the state system will offset a large proportion of this tax-take by itself.

You could argue the tax benefit is already in place, as parents are freeing up places in an already overburdened state system by choosing private. Perhaps they will give a tax credit to parents of the relative state cost equivalent....I doubt it.

Throwing money continuously at a problem is not always the answer, and it's easy to spend other people's money. Ask anyone who runs their own business.

Labour are jumping on this as they know it will appeal to a large voting demographic, who are not experienced enough outside of an employed job to understand the results will be counter productive.

Rather than compare anecdotes about specific children or schools I think that the specifics of any policy will be more complex than Labour imagines, it will take a long time to work through so if you have kids in secondary school right now you might have time to get them through before major changes happen.

I also think that should such a change happen people are going to be pretty unimpressed with the promised funding increases/improvements to the state sector. The problems with schools have not been caused by the existence of private schools. We're not Finland.

... that MORE people from private schools go into such professions compared with state schools. Which is a fact. Again, let’s focus on why that is rather than pretending all state schools are adequate because they are not.

In a few years you will be joining in the bleating on the Oxbridge applicant threads about how awful it is that those pesky state school applicants are taking the places that your oh so clever children are entitled too.

Received wisdom seems to be that you should be planning on 20% on school fees from sept 25.

I have dc currently in two different schools and both are in the process of surveying parents about this and I am guessing working out what the likely impact is going to be on them and the schools.

As others have said, the big schools will be fine but I suspect many preps will close. All my children have been in private since they were 3, if I currently had little ones they would undoubtedly be going for state infants at the very least.

And it’s not necessarily just people using a loop hole. There’ll be plenty of people (like me) who are paying for the small class sizes and rigid routine of small independent schools to try to keep their ASD kids in school - who then can’t afford the fees, and need the LA to pick up the tab. Fortunately, we’ll weather a 20% increase, but many won’t be able to.

I can't imagine it happening under Starmer. Has he actually proposed it or accepted as policy or is it just something the membership has voted for at conference

However I don't think you should put kids in private school unless you are absolutely sure you can afford it and for all of them, until they finish and it could go up a lot more then 20% without VAT. Though it could be extremley difficult if in addition too.

They will probably want to, but might think twice about just slapping it on immediately without phasing. Db works in one and said it will definitely go under if VAT goes on the fees. Many of the parents are only just affording it now, the school itself is strapped for cash and so it’s already pretty precarious. I guess the really rich families would go to another private school, but the majority of them would be straight into the state system, overwhelming it in that area.

private schools and private school parents are not half as rich as some would like to make out. Of course some are absolutely loaded - but they aren’t the norm in most places.

lots of the teachers would go into private tutoring rather than return to the state sector. The difference he finds is that when kids are horrifically behaved, private can expel them and get on with educating the rest of the kids. State can’t expel without massive cost and problems so they can’t just get on with educating the rest of the kids when there is a small minority of horrifically behaved ones.

I was replying to @Toetouchingtitties but it didn’t quote you 🤦🏻‍♀️

I bloody hope so.

@TeenLifeMum that’s true. And I’d rather my children were exposed to more peers from those families.

Well, if there are less privately educated kids then there will need to be more comp kids in those professions. Why does that bother you? Comp kids are perfectly capable you know.

Fewer.

DC’s school have sent an email already to say if it happens, they will cap the difference to parents at 10%.

It’s coming - have you seen Bridget Phillipson? She’s practically spitting when she mentions private schools.

Nothing will change for state schools, try and cover it as best you can.

Lots of private equity are eyeing up private schools that will go bankrupt quickly due to this policy. Lots of money to be made, turning into very profitable SEN schools, some nurseries and care homes (big push for rehab/respite to clear NHS beds). And selling off lands.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/how-investors-are-making-millions-from-the-bankrupt-send-system/

@Dearover your post makes no sense. Including the grammar…

I think so and I certainly hope so

How will nothing change for state schools if a very substantial number of places have to be found for the kids who can no longer afford private?

*to

Sorry, to clarify - yes, you’re right - they might be more stretched as a result.

They certainly won’t improve.

We’re assuming it will happen from September 2025. We will be trying to move DS from his v academic independent after GCSEs (so one year of VAT) to a highly sought after sixth form entry. I suspect all those calling for VAT might be less keen if it means their own child may be denied entry to the sixth form they want - given the numbers we know why will be trying to from independent, this will become a very competitive market.

I wonder how the party plan to tackle the “inequality” of those using the state system but paying for private tutors, or those buying expensive houses in catchments of good state schools.

Completely agree with the above

MN is disproportionately skewed towards parents whose DC go to private schools so the policy is not popular on here. It will be a more popular policy for the majority of the public who could never dream of affording a private education for their DC, not with any amount of sacrifice. The majority of people who can afford to send their children to private schools will not be natural Labour voters. It will appeal to voters who associate private school with turning out the likes of Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak and don't see why they should hide under the umbrella of "charity" when the vast majority do naff all to deserve a charitable status.

The private schools in this area do absolutely nothing for the rest of the community. They even have their own Rainbows/Beavers units etc which the plebs are not allowed to attend.