Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

You wouldn't like to think anyone would slap VAT on uni fees, at one point uni was free and a grant on top.
Anything is possible!

And if they did it with Uni they'd do it with nursery and wrap around care.
You can see it coming!

University fees will definitely go up, with or without the introduction of VAT. Our governments do not value education.

And then all those who are welcoming the VAT on private schools will be posting on MN about how it isn't fair that they are paying VAT on university fees.

You don’t think uni tuition fees will go up for other reasons? Such as most universities are totally skint? Tuition fees haven’t changed for ages.

Swimming lessons provided by a LA (I.e. those at a council-run swimming pool) probably fall under a special legal regime for VAT purposes, and would be counted as a non-business activity even if education as a whole became subject to VAT.

I think (but am not entirely sure) that non-LA/school swimming lessons come under "tuition" not education, and if provided by an individual or sole trader, are not subject to VAT, but if they are provided by a company, then they are - and so a company (e.g David Loyd) would already have to be charging VAT on them (if their overall turnover was >£85k).

VAT is immensely complicated, too much and unnecessarily so, and this is why Labour would have to word any new legislation extremely carefully.

The economics are interesting, eg how many private schools will become unviable and close at short notice; level of reduction in new starters to private schools in year 7 and year 12; moves from private to state in primary years; then years 7-9 (in time for start of gcse courses).

lots of unknowns and scope for modelling by analysts!

@Tiredandgrumpykids

They will be linked to an inflation index (RPI + 1% or similar). But they won't be raising them beyond that.

Still, in a decade or so the fees will have probably increased by 30% simply due to inflation.

Thats the direction of travel from what I can see.

Uni finances and tuition fees are interesting.

On one hand, the fees and living costs are unaffordable for many (even with govt grants/loans) and can leave students with unappealingly high amounts of debt.

But on the other hand, as a PP has said, uni fees have not increased in years, and a lot of institutions are really struggling financially.

I'm not sure what the answer is! I can totally see why a lot of universities have been trying to up their intake of overseas students, because their fees are so much higher - but I don't agree with them doing it. Maybe the answer is to whack up foreign fees by loads - but then put a cap on numbers, maybe max 20% non-UK.

The problem with overseas students is that they need housing and all housing in my city that is being built is for students, even though we have a housing crisis. And for the government they are problematic as they show up in the stats as immigrants

Certainly hope they do. I’d vote for that all day long.

University tuition fees are such a murky area, aren't they, because of the way student loans are set up - essentially it's a graduate tax for those who aren't able to pay up front.

I guess what wealthier parents might lose on the swings of VAT on school fees, their children currently gain if they're able to pay fees up front.

Does this school offer full bursaries to very low achieving students from poor families?

There is a general dismissal of the ‘1% increase in state school spending’ that this might lead to. Well, for starters, the IFS study that I linked to earlier thinks this would be worth 2%.

If you are a state school on the bones of your arse, 2% might be an extra teacher, so you can teach each year group separately, or a couple of extra TAs to deal with SEN pupils in a classroom setting. When you are starved of money, every tiny bit can make a huge difference to outcomes.

Ultimately, we need to raise more taxes to put into education (and health) and the only people who can pay are the wealthy. VAT on private school fees seems proportionate.

I do find the parents on here bleating about how kids will be affected seem to have total amnesia about the pupils who quietly leave every year due to divorce, redundancy or businesses going bad. It is a drawback of a fee paying system that, if you can’t pay the fees, the children have to leave (although, any half way decent private school tries to mitigate this and allow parents some flexibility).

What’s your income like? I always see such enthusiasm for other people paying on mn.

Any appetite to stump up some extra tax?

@EasternStandard ,

Firstly, it’s absolutely none of your business.

Secondly, for what it’s worth, I have paid a LOT of tax in my lifetime and could comfortably have educated my children privately, even with this small rise.

What do you suggest? However rich you are, do you really want the UK to become like a developing nation, with the poor having zero health, education or social mobility and the rich buying the best of everything.

We pay a lower total tax than all developed nations bar the U.S (and we don’t even have their philanthropic traditions). We have one of the highest GINI coefficients in the developed world as well (if you need to, look it up).

I will be leaving I am not paying 20% vat on fees when they should be refunded to me in the first place. Some countries in Scandinavia do this. Why is the UK so backward.

Yes I thought you might be a high earner, benefitting from wealth divide no problem - that GINI coefficient includes you. Perhaps you should decrease it personally

There was another earlier on the thread or maybe another who couldn’t help share they were on half a million all up

Feel free to stump up some more tax, why not?

It’s much easier to demand it of others

Universities are independent companies - therefore also private. If we have to pay VAT then so do universities and perhaps they should charge VAT on student halls accommodation too.

I am not voting for Labour for that reason.

@EasternStandard ,

Your posts have an unpleasant tone and I won’t continue to respond.

I have worked in the private school sector and given my time and expertise freely to the state school sector.

I also give plenty of my money away to charities.

Your ignorance of both private schools and state schools is clear from your posts.

Going to school or sending your children to a school does not an educational expert make.

https://capx.co/a-graduate-tax-but-for-employers/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=30%2F01%2F24

The above is a link to an article published online today arguing that if employers now deem university degrees essential to jobs that they recruited after A level only a generation ago, then it is employers who should be funding the costs of degree educations. I did find myself somewhat in agreement, but then, I was lucky enough to be among the 8% who were deemed bright enough for university in the early 70s, when it was much more selective.

If that reasoning was accurate, you'd have lower percentages of children in fee paying schools in areas where state schools are high performing. But you don't. In fact the opposite is true.

It doesn't take into account that parents will literally grind themselves to dust to advantage their child over other children. It's not just about a school being 'good', it's about the school being 'better' than even very high performing local state schools. It's about wanting your child to have an advantage over other children. One way of doing this is to remove them from educational settings where they might come into contact with social disadvantage, and to lavish educational resources on them - which is what happens in private schools. The last thing privately educating parents want is the equality of opportunity that would be the result of state schools having the same resources as private schools. It would mean their child no longer has an advantage over other children!

‘Bleating’ and what was the other one, hysterical?

And other such niceties.. not scrolling back to read more

But you’ve been been going pretty strong in your own male way

Oh just saw ‘ignorance’ why would that be? Given I use schools

Imagine the NHS paying for an entire medical degree! 7 years later . .
I suppose it can also be argued that education should be free for all children therefore those choosing private school should still be reimbursed the equivalent of what they would use in a state school. Other more progressive countries do this. It's paid to the school of your choice and therefore allows any parent to choose any school they want for their child.

These threads are just people saying you pay more

Why do people get the hump if they are part of the inequality and it is directed to them?

Australia certainly allows parents to shift the value of the state's education spend to the private sector if wished. Not sure where else does.