To think this poo situation is just ridiculous now?

[Alittlebitwary]

Posting here for traffic to see if anyone else has any experience of the same, as I'm at the end of my tether with this and literally don't know what else I can do.

My 4yo just will do anything to avoid doing a poo.
Potty training was fine, this started sometime between age 2 and 3. She holds it to the point it starts to come out, so gets poo in her knickers, but won't go to the toilet. She will cross her legs, crouch on the floor, and though clearly desperately holding it in she flatly denies needing a poo.
We sit her on the toilet and she screams her head off saying she doesn't need one, despite the repeated pooey knickers. She'll then go off and play, then repeat. More pooey knickers and toilet refusal. I'm absolutely sick to death of it now.

We've tried everything.
Poo apps recommended by HV.
Ignoring and letting her lead (she then holds so long - days - that it's eventually painful when she finally does do one then is even more avoidant).
Forcing her to the loo (she refuses)
putting games and toys in the loo to keep her there / make it relaxed (she just plays and no poo comes out)
Positive reinforcement, sticker charts, rewards. Huge praise for every poo.
Also tried not making a fuss so she didn't stop doing it just because she wasn't getting a fuss.
Increased fluids and fruit.
We make doing a poo part of bedtime routine and sit her on the toilet every night before bed.
We often have to spend 15 mins making her laugh to get her to relax enough to poo.
She ALWAYS denies needing to go, even while she's doing one!
However, occasionally she takes herself off to do one, and gets on with it no problem. I have no idea why sometimes she can and sometimes she can't.

We saw GP when she was 2 or 3 and she's been on laxido daily ever since and the poos are always soft now. It's possible she was constipated at one point and had a painful poo.

The thing is, we'll go round in circles having a period where she's going on her own no problem, every day with no issues!! and then suddenly there'll be another period where she is constantly holding and it's a constant battle to get her to be regular.

I am absolutely sick to death of the pooey knickers and her little sister is starting to copy this behaviour and I just can't!

She's at school now and comes home with poo knickers on the regular and she gets a sore bum.

Help me Mumsnet!!

We resorted to bribery 🤦🏻‍♀️🫣 DS would not like pooing so in the end I just gave him chocolate buttons every time he went and that was enough to crack it.

Awkward?

I can’t imagine why any child would deliberately withhold poo and then soil themselves, often in front of an audience, often with upsetting and shameful reactions from others. The children we are talking about are past potty training age and of an age where they will likely be acutely aware of- and ashamed/embarrassed about their problem. To suggest a child would do this deliberately simply to be awkward is a strange conclusion to reach.

We suffered with this for years until we saw a peadiatric gastroenterologist. It can be psychological. It can also be physical. The child gets constipated it hurts, then the cycle gets worse and worse as the body adapts and they can then hold poo for longer. It gets bigger and then hurts etc.

it’s called Encopresis

https://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/health/e/encopresis#:~:text=About%20Encopresis&text=Some%20children%20will%20refuse%20to,smell%20that%20they%20have%20soiled.

you need to increase fiber water consumption (not sugary drinks) but also take medication. You need to make the poo the same consistency as porridge and then Gradually reduce the dose of medication until they go every day with a soft sausage stool. I cannot stress enough this takes a really long time. If you go too fast they will go back to old habits. It will most likely take 3-6 months. If they start holding it again go straight back to medication. We were prescribed movicol Junior starting with three sachets a day. This doesn’t taste of anything but you can put this in apple juice or something similar. Understand the cycle also. 10-20mins after food they could need to poo. So movicol in a drink before food.

i hope this helps you. We found it incredibly frustrating and upsetting.

https://www.movicol.com.au/files/MOVICOL_Junior_Flavour_Free_PIL.pdf

Sounds like a sensory issue. My son was 9 before he managed to go. You just have to keep going with it I’m afraid but you will get there.

OP you've described exactly how my son was (years ago) he ended up at the drs having a pessary to make him go he'd held it in so long one time. I too, like yourself was at the end of my tether with what to try next.

I decided (as he'd hated the nasty Dr sticking a pessary up his bottom) to use that to my advantage as awful as it sounds... I went to the chemist and got him some Bassets chewy strawberry multivitamins, I told him he had to have one each morning with a glass of orange juice and it would make his poo time real easy and therefore he'd never need to go to the Dr again for the same procedure. It worked within a day or two and he'd happily take himself off for a poo and stopped the crazy long holding in times.

Definitely the placebo effect but it worked nonetheless (he did still hold himself until after school every single day though but went immediately upon getting home)

My son had encoporesis. We had to help him with wiping when he was in primary (maybe up to year 3) and did lots of poo reminders until he was ten. (He also has ADHD, transient tic disorder and sensory issues).it gets better,it just takes some kids longer and parents don’t discuss it so when your child experinces it you think you are alone. Is your DD at school yet? The school nursing team were great for helping with my son.

We had poo regression too at age 4! What we found helped was the various stories of poo on Youtube which he found really funny. Also when he was really holding it, popping him in the bath - it relaxed his stomach so much he couldn't keep it in. Hoping it gets better for you, its a tough one I know but such a relief when they get over it.

My son was the same and he just grew out of it, I completely sympathise but it won’t be forever! He’s 12 now, and he remembers being like that and laughs about it now! You’re doing your best - just know it won’t be forever.

My DD was exactly like this and used pampers pull ups to poo until she was nearly 5.
She was dry through the night and wee toilet trained early - just shortly after her 2nd birthday but absolutely nothing worked to get her to poo on the toilet- nothing- believe me we tried everything.. She was a week away from referral appointment and one day a week before her 5th birthday she just did it and was fine after that
She was diagnosed with autism as a teenager.
My advice is to seek a referral but also try not to stress about it- which is hard I know. Most important that they continue to have regular bowel movements and feel safe to do so. We threw away pull ups and DDs just refused to poo for nearly a week , advised by health visitor to give pullups back.
DD used to manage it herself and change into pull ups herself.

Not the best advice I know bit letting our DC sit on the toilet with a tablet and watch you tube was a lifesaver! He relaxed and was able to poo and saw it as a treat. Yes he would stay there a bit longer after doing it and tell us that as he wanted to watch the end of a video, cheeky bugger lol. Have to do what works, not my ideal of parenting but had tried everything! X

Please don't do this. Jesus Christ

We had terrible issues toilet training for number 2s with our DD. She was toilet trained for wees in 2 days but poos took nearly a year. It was a very long drawn out process so I really feel your pain.
If you can rule out any physical medical issues then consider whether this is one piece of a puzzle of picture of sensory issues. I only say this because our dd- now nearly 6- has just been diagnosed autistic
It is now starting to make sense that the poo issues she had were likely a sensory thing. Just something else to consider as I know what it is like to feel like you've tried everything, scoured the Internet etc. And still not have found anything that has impact. Good luck with it.

My little boy was like this, he was afraid he would fall down the loo if he sat on it for longer than it takes to do a wee. I broke him in 3 weeks, now he doesn't bat an eyelid. Like you, I got fed up - during his reception year at school I was called 46 times because of poo incidents, then had to keep him at home for 2 days after due to sickness & diaorrhea policy🙄
This may have been suggested already OP - try poo stories for children. Buy a handful you think your DDs would be interested in and get them to read while on the toilet. The Dinosaur That Pooped The Bed, SuperPoop, It Hurts When I Poo, Liam Goes Poo On The Loo... just to name a few.
Or gather a few read-with-me videos from Youtube and queue them on your phone, a Kindle or tablet.
Get some very attractive girly knickers, really lay on thick that she wouldn't like to ruin them with poo. If she does, they go straight in the bin, mummy's jot going to wash them - she'll soon realise she's losing all her new favourite knickers, oh no! That should get her to learn consequences, get a grip, be a big girl.
Pull out the reward charts and be diligent, persistent, above all deadly serious. Make the reward worth the trouble.
There's also a wonderful book called Stool Withholding by Sophia Ferguson - after reading, you'll definitely feel more confident in your strategy to make your DDs poo on the loo!
Stool Withholding is actually a thing with autistic or anxiety-ridden children. Not saying your daughters are neurodiverse, but approach with more patience than you are, be cajoling, persuasive, saccharine even. Not a hint of frustration or anger as this will feed the behaviour you don't want. Make up silly songs if you have to.
Wishing the best 👌

I really feel for you, having the exact same issue with my 6 year old, it’s been 4 years of this exhaustion. I’ve spoken to doctors, HV, school nurse, ERIC, nhs continence team. I’ve tried reward charts, bubbles, apps, poo goes to poo land, iPad on the loo, toilet seats, potties, bribes, you name it. Nothing seems to help her with her fear of pooing (she was withholding which lead to constipation hence fear to poo).

I am sure this won’t last forever (I hope) but wanted to follow this thread in the hope that there’s some good advice on here. I’m at my wits end! If anyone has a miracle cure I’ll be most grateful! X

I'm sorry if you've already tried this or if I've missed something in the comments, but have you tried getting her to go in the mornings?

I had this when my son was small, nearly lost my mind, tried everything but still the same, ended up doctor put him on MOVICOL, he was on ot for 4 months and we never looked back, he was constipated and couldn't help it, poor little mite, hope you get sorted

Hi OP!

I had a very similar problem with my daughter when she was around that age too and has thankfully grown out of it too.

One thing I found, especially about the poo in the knickers, was finding it disgusting. She seemed to realise that poo in the knickers was horrible and it needed to be in the toilet! A big thing was the idea of not being a baby. We showed her how a baby uses a nappy for the toilet and how big girls like her use the toilet. We too tried everything but this seemed to be the best way.

Try to get her to acknowledge that poo in the toilet is a very good thing and in her knickers is horrible.

Believe me I never thought my daughter would ever poo in the toilet and 2 years later she gets upset if she diarrhea in her knickers now! Just keep going with it and you'll get there eventually ☺️

Have you considered if she has any sensory needs and perhaps the environment could be overstimulating. Sometimes the noise from an extractor fan, the sound of an air fresher or other smells and sounds in the bathroom can affect young children. Had one little boy I worked with where the extractor fan needed to be switched off and this solved it. Another child was alarmed with the automatic air freshener … worth having a thing if the bathroom in itself is the barrier.

@TrixieFatell and @Waitingfordoggo : the child doesn't have to clean her knickers, just put them in the bucket where the reusable wipes and diapers are collected too.

We had the exact same problem with my daughter. She’s 10 now but it wasn’t until she almost turned 5, that it ‘clicked’. She refused to poo anywhere other than a pull up once she was in bed. I was at my wits end with it. We tried pretty much everything everyone else has said already and it had no effect. She seemed to fear going on the potty/toilet.

We were only prescribed movicol from the doctor to help with potential constipation and told they wouldn’t address it as a medical issue until she was 8, if it continued. In desperation I switched her to knickers at night time instead of pull ups in case she saw them as a safety net so to speak (bought ultra cheap ones so I could bin them if necessary) and eventually it seemed to help. If she poo’d in bed I’d get her to help me to change her covers etc so she knew what had to be done it happened.

Hold on in there op, she’ll get there. x

Id be tempted to say if you dont poo out your bum it will come out of your mouth.

Yep, this is what worked for us along with as little attention/ chat about poos as possible.

😱🤣

There can be psychological issues about losing yourself whilst having a poo. Especially if there's been problems with it being painful in the past. Just don't make too big a deal of any of it.

My favourite toilet book is "Who's in the Loo?" About different animals using the toilet 😂.

I had a similar experience to you, the poos. My daughter would wail when it was poo time and refused to go to the toilet. She was put on laxatives like your daughter aswel to help her ease it. But didn't stay on them for long. Gp said it's really common in girls to have this issue.
I had to start becoming firmer rather than being gentle and saying take your time as I knew she was ready to use the toilet. I too was sick of cleaning wet/soiled knickers I bought a plastic container and cheap non bio powder from asda and kept it in the bathroom and scrubbed it in sink and then chucked it in the container ready for the washing machine. It all got too much because I had my second baby so was too overwhelmed so I stuck her in pull ups the huggies ones and tbh that really eased off the stress and my daughter naturally and gradually just learnt to go the toilet! I wasn't stressed and she felt more comfortable. She'd go with pull ups on and if she had an accident the pull ups would catch it. Also because baby was in nappies we would say things like ah baby wears nappies not you, you're a big girl etc etc... a bit of healthy competition does work wonders.

It's not for everyone but worked so well for my daughter she was out of pull ups by age 4. She's 6 now and goes toilet unaccompanied if it's a wee but I will clean her for a poo.