To take my child to a therapist

[gelatodipistacchio]

She's 7 and lives with me most of the time. She spends Wednesdays and EOW with her father, whom I left due to emotional abuse.

She hates her father (she says this) and constantly tells me that he is mean to her. She refuses to explain in more detail. She is always upset before and after seeing him.

I took her to a child counselor before and she refused to engage. She is very intelligent and actively resists bringing any new adults into her fold.

Recently I have taken some recordings of us talking when she has started to go on about her dad.

Is it worthwhile trying to get her to a therapist? Or would a therapist talk to me and find these videos useful?

Don't send her, let him go to court, repeatedly ignore orders if granted, it will cist him time and money, by the time it ever gets to repercussions for you she will be old enough for courts to take her view into account.
I know far more DMs that use that tactic against non abusive fathers just because they view DC as 'theirs' than abusive. It seems to work well for them.
I'd be concerned, given your child's trauma, that it's not just emotional abuse. At present, you are also colluding in the abuse.

Probably a stupid question OP but I assume he's named on her birth certificate?

At 7 she is old enough to have her thoughts taken into consideration.
if she genuinely doesn’t want to go then don’t make her. Let it go through court and show cafcass the recordings.

You need a new solicitor, if you’re in the midlands at all there’s an amazing solicitor in Leicester.

Ultimately though you have to try and get her to talk. My dad said if I told anyone anything he would kill my mum in front of me. I’d already seen him do it and her be unconscious on the floor many times so I never said a word. It’s only when it went back to court and court welfare officer said he needs to be kept away from me urgently to the point that we moved hundreds of miles away that things changed.

This.

There are so many naive women on this site who think that women can just keep their children away from arsey fathers by LTB or just not sending their kids to contact with them.

It’s a really, really hard long, expensive to actually stop a Father having contact with his children. Courts are very reluctant to this.

Does anyone remember that Judge who said it was a pleasure to return a young daughter to live with her Father. Who shortly after murdered her? Her grandparents had spent all their savings on trying to stop him having access as they believed him to be a danger to her.

@coldbrightmorning

There is no court order though. So OP would not be going against anything.

It's really not that hard not to comply with court orders (in this case there are NO orders in place yet anyway). Let him go to to court trying to enforce the orders. Just don't comply and that's it

You do not get to make that choice. If you constantly fail to adhere to the terms of court orders, the end resilt can be losing custody.

If doorstep arguments are upsetting her (and they’d upset any child) then please use a 3rd party for handover as this will be causing the most damage

It really won't. It happens all the time that one parent moves away with the child and resists all contact. There is not that much that can be done to force contact

Just realised this person claims to be a DSL, which I have just looked up (didn't know the acronym). To everyone who is telling me to just stop contact - this is what I would be dealing with when he inevitably took it to court.

I'm so sorry you went through that.

He's not physically abusive. Just extremely emotionally abusive, but without name calling. Lots of subtle putdowns, controlling behaviour, mind games. It's very hard to explain unless you have been in it.

this is what I would be dealing with when he inevitably took it to court.

Which is months down the line and totally irrelevant to whether you send your child to be abused by her father tomorrow.

Stop her going there and give her a break. You may find once the pressure is off she will start to open up about things. Perhaps with a therapist, but it isn't a case of therapising her into being ok to go there.

I'm stunned at you being so defeated in a situation that hasn't even happened yet

You need to prioritise the here and now, not the whatabout.

It may well turn out that months down the line contact is restored, but your daughter will have been safe for a long time before that happens and toy will have had the chance to help her talk and process what happened which will also serve as 'ammunition' if it eventually does go to court.

"apply to the courts if you are concerned."

I am concerned, and writing with concern about my child's wellbeing in an anonymous forum where I can disclose all in a relatively safe space. And yet you, a DSL, are jumping to the conclusion that I am alienating my child from her father. Why would I ever go to court when this is the type of assumption that will be made?

Trust me when I say that her father only cares about not paying maintenance and about getting an ego boost from being head of a household. He is a controlling narcissist. She doesn't like him because he's plain mean.

LISTEN TO YOUR CHILD AND STOP SENDING HER!!

Just to say to that poster who claims to be DSL and thinks it's normal for kids to say they hate their parents and have these extreme reactions to being forced to see them - it's really not!!

My ex-husband is an absolutely useless parent who comes in and out of my daughter's life and then disappears again every few years. He's a real piece of work and she doesn't particularly like him, but she would never have a meltdown if asked to see him - that's so not normal!!!! Also she would never say she hates him (or me) - again totally not normal over the top reaction and spending time with her dad should not be so traumatic!!

There is something wrong here. Please listen to your child OP!

@XelaM the DSL person probably sees loads of kids who are suffering EA (because these are contested cases where there are real safeguarding concerns) and has begun to think that it's normal and the mums are lying and devious (rather than understanding how many shit fathers there are).

This is me. DSL means Designated Safeguarding Lead - a member of staff in school with responsibility for keeping children safe in education.

For the avoidance of doubt, a DSL is not involved in the courts decision to grant contact and access arrangements, as is being implied.

My best advise is to offer the children lots of safe opportunities to disclose their feelings and worries to trusted adults. School is ideally placed for this. But you need to accept that the children should be believed, even if it isn't what a parent wants to hear - if the child isnt disclosing any harm and alongside this doesn't show any non-verbal concerns, then school DSL will believe them. So will social care. So will CAFCAS and the courts. The key is to maintain that ongoing safe space to talk about worries and feelings, and to be vigilant of non-verbal concerns. That isn't just asking the child one time and getting an answer. It's building trust and developing open conversation with the child. DSLs and similar nurture groups or mentors at school are very good at getting to the genuine voice of the child - even when what the child's voice says isn't want the mum or dad wants to hear.

I didn't realise when i wrote my earlier post that you'd not already been to court for access arrangements OP. I assumed a court order was in place for contact, which was why you were worrying.

If you do not have court mandated access and you have safeguarding concerns, you can exercise your PR and stop allowing contact with father. He would then need to go to court to get access. That will buy you some time, plus maybe he won't go to court anyway? From what you describe here, if he does go to CAFCAS and court, and the children continue as they are - ie not disclosing harm in a trusted space, then courts would likely mandate access with both parents. Because the child's voice is heard and believed.

I get you don't want to hear that. Most of my job is telling parents things they don't want to hear. It is important these hard conversations are had though.

And XelaM - if every child (especially teen) that told the DSL that hated their Mum/Dad was then told they could no longer see their parent - there would be a lot of children put in care. And many, many devestated families. Decisions of such a serious nature are never arbitrary black and white like that.

@Woush

It's not that I don't want to hear this. It's that I think it is a flawed system and this reinforces my belief that it won't result in my child being protected.

My daughter literally told me that I am the only person she trusts, though I have encouraged her to open up with other adults whom she should trust and who have been made available to her. She shuts down and refuses to disclose as a way to protect herself and have some control over her life.

She has only shown concerns to me and my partner as far as I can see. And I DO believe her. She is obviously seriously distressed after and before seeing him. Last night I asked how she feels when she goes to daddy's and she said that she worries a lot about what he will do to her. When asked why, she refuses to respond.

So the way the system works is she is believed to be saying everything is fine due to her inability to say exactly what is wrong?

@Woush and thanks - this is interesting and helpful

My daughter literally told me that I am the only person she trusts, though I have encouraged her to open up with other adults whom she should trust and who have been made available to her. She shuts down and refuses to disclose as a way to protect herself and have some control over her life.

I appreciate that and 1 million percent believe that is your truth.

What parents in similar situations often don't appreciate is that their children will often be entirely open and candid with me (or colleagues) and be very clear that they cannot say what they have told me, to Mum/Dad. These children know how devestated Mum/Dad will be with their own truth, so they say to each parent what the child think the parent wants to hear.

It's not unusual that I face a situation where Mum is 100% sure child is being harmed by Dad. And Dad is 100% sure child is being harmed by Dad. Neither Mum nor Dad is exaggerating or being dishonest. Then when I (or colleagues) spend time with the child - the child will be clear that neither Mum or Dad are causing harm.

It's often the child wanting to please both parents because they love and seek approval from both. The parent will say they dont lead the child or ask leading questions, but it's not as simple as that. Children inherently want both parents to be happy and so it takes proactive and deliberate positivity towards other parent for child to feel confident in their honesty. It's not a parents fault they can't give that positivity - it's often near impossible. But understanding your bias is important and a step all separated parents could take.

I have to offer the obvious caveat that some children are being harmed. Thankfully that is very rare though. And often when they are, if there are no verbal disclosures there will be multiple non verbal signs. So make school aware of your worries. Then if they do see non-verbal concerns, they have the extra info. But equally be ready to know that it's possible your child is seeking to confirm your bias in order to gain your approval - which isn't actually a true reflection of their lived experience.

Also important to say (excuse my blunt language) that shit parenting is not abusive behaviour.

• No parent is perfect.
• Every parent will have occasions when they do shit parenting.

- All Most parents shout at their kids from time to time

• Non ideal parenting does not make it abusive or neglectful.
• people parent in different ways and have differing thoughts on achiving the best outcomes for their children. Just because it's not what you'd do, doesn't make it abusive.

Omg how utterly awful.

Solidarity , OP , I’m so sorry you and your DD are going through this.

What are you talking about? Your post doesn’t even make sense. OP does believe her child- her child says she hates her dad and he’s mean to her, and is distressed after spending time with him . It’s you who are saying this child shouldn’t be believed , as apparently it’s normal for children to say this about their parents.

What OP is describing isn’t the least bit normal.

instead of believing the child, you apparently sense “parental alienation”, based on no evidence whatsoever. https://www.womensaid.org.uk/parental-alienation-a-dangerous-and-harmful-concept/
This is exactly why we have a court system that forces children to have contact with abusive men.

@Woush

It's terrifying to think you may actually be a DSL