To expect my child to be taught by a teacher with a degree in that subject?

[northlundunmum]

My child is in year 8 and in their school
has “Humanities” which is history and geography combined rather than taught separately- not great in my view but ok. However, this year they are being taught by a music teacher. No doubt a very talented musician but according to my child they admit not being very good at teaching history or geography.

I do understand there are teacher shortages and sometimes some teachers will have to cover for others but this seems to be a permanent arrangement at least for this year.

Does anybody know what the DfE / Ofsted rules / guidance are on this? I understand you have to have a degree in a subject in order to train to teach it at secondary level (or at least used to) - does that not extend to actually teaching the subject in school?

Grateful for advice from anyone who knows the law / regulations here as want to approach the school about it and want to be clear what’s reasonable to expect and what they should in fact be doing according to govt policy.

Thank you!

Thanks I have done that previously and I have two teenagers, so used to drama 😁

Excellent! You should go for it then!

I’ve taught secondary English, geography and history. Religious education (GCSE and A level) and French.

Want to guess what My degree is?

@Sadsatsmum psychology?

Do you honestly think the school don’t know this?!

I did my degree in art, was an art teacher for 3 years before the head called me in, had heard I had an interest in astronomy - fancy a go at physics, he said - never taught art again, have been head of science and a physics teacher (GCSE and A level) ever since.

Of course you need a good knowledge of the subject you are teaching, but you also need an enthusiasm for the subject and an ability to convey the material in an effective way, thats the trick to teaching.

All secondary teachers will have QTS whether that was through an undergrad, postgraduate or route into teaching course.

Not true: a head can say that someone without QTS is good enough, even in a maintained school.

Such a sad thread to read.

Teaching for twenty years now after a career in publishing. I’ve got it in my head to try to carry on for five more years but I’m not sure I can. I’ve loved being a teacher and the buzz of a secondary classroom. Don’t get me wrong it’s not all ‘Dead Poet’s Society’ but every day is always different and some of my students have been a joy. But the lack of investment in education is soul destroying and I’m not simply talking about pay. The school is a crumbling mess and we are stretched beyond reasonable measures now. Leadership team range from great to batshit bullies keen to polish their own LinkedIn profiles. Support from parents is often not there and we seem to be toothless in tackling behaviour. I feel like a social worker come educator come security officer with no time to plan or freshen up my curriculum. My own children have been relatively lucky but the rot has set in at their highly respected schools too.

It’s just crushingly sad.

Haha nope! Though I’d love to teach it one day

My father was a headteacher in a very undesirable area that had problems recruiting. He was persuaded by a college to take on someone who had failed exams before scraping through. He said she was the best teacher he ever had. He also managed to recruit someone with great results. She was awful and basically hated children. They ability to teach is paramount not qualifications.
My chemistry teacher left half way through my 1st year A level in chemistry. They got a youth from a nearby school who had taken his A level early to help out for the rest of the year before he went to Uni. Best teacher ever! A retired PhD took overa later and he failed to teach us the required curriculum and we all failed. Qualifications are irrelevant more the ability to teach.

@MrsScarecrow I know what you mean, there was a lecturer (professor) at uni whose lectures I didn't bother going to after the first one where he tried to teach something done at GCSE that I understood, and then his explanation had me completely confused, because he couldn't explain concepts in a relatable (some might say dumbed down) way.

@Zonder - which was also the case when I was at school in the late 80s/early 90s tbf. And it was rubbish. We always knew which of our teachers were teaching outside their specialist area/comfort zone. And their lessons were almost always crap. And we didnt behave well. It wasnt good.

Alongside a teaching qualification, you only need an A level in the subject you're teaching. But be realistic, at basic GCSE level, you don't need to learn at degree level. There's just a set amount of knowledge to learn. The more experienced the teacher in the subject, the more they might inspire kids. However your child just needs to learn enough to jump through the GCSE hoops and pass, and then move on to the next stage of exam courses and qualifications. If you want a grade 9, then either your child or you or both of you will have to put in the hard work. There are 625,000 children born every year. That's over 8 million school children that you must educate to basic standards, every single day.

I don’t think this is new, I remember being taught RE and history by the school PE teachers in year 7. This was 2004ish.

As previously stated I don’t even have a gcse in the subject I teach

I am an English teacher and this year have a Year 7 Geography class - there are lots of us teaching other subjects- 'non specialist teachers'
If it makes you feel better, this class is one of my main ones that I spend ages preparing as I am very conscious that I am no expert!
We all hate having to teach other subjects as well but there is such a shortage.
Last year I had to do History, Geography and Religious studies as well as English (and am an ECT!)

I voted YANBU because I believe we should strive for our expectations, even middling ones which were once a given. Of course it should be so. However, I’m a teacher and there is a desperate shortage in many subjects so we are forced to make and do. Very sad demise but down to the government and not the schools.

what magical school or land does she work in that this is possible????

Our second in maths has a music degree. I’m a music teacher. I didn’t get lumped in to teach geography but I probably will soon.

pay a decent salary and then maybe you’ll get the teacjers!!!!

I’m in Scotland. I’m not a teacher but have several teacher friends and family members. They dream of a 35 hour working week!! My parents both retired more than 10 years ago and worked many more hours than that back then. From what I can see, it’s only got worse.

I do agree that things are not as bad up here - but they’re not that great either. The strikes last year tell that story surely.

And granted, we don’t have OFSTED, but potato potahto

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/pressure-inspection-drove-scottish-primary-head-suicide

Oh of course we work more than 35 hours - however we have a set number of hours worked per week. My understanding is that no such mechanism is in place in England - therefore something like a work-to-rule can be put in place in Scotland, where it couldn’t in England.

The strikes in Scotland were primarily over pay. And they worked. Things are most certainly not great (after the day I’ve had especially!) however at least I get to teach my own subject. The subject I studied for four years. The subject I then got a postgrad to teach.

The day I’m expected to teach any other subject is the day I walk. And walking is exactly what teachers in England are doing (en mass)

Reasons for non specialised teachers have been well covered but I also wanted to add that I had "humanities" lessons year 7-9. We then picked either geography or history to carry on for exams. This was in the late 90s!

That’s one news report from 2009.

57% of Scottish schools haven’t been inspected since 2012/13.

I’ve been inspected three times since starting teaching and it’s not that scary really. Nothing that I’d lose sleep over anyway; you just do your thing. Slightly nerve wracking when they walk in to your class; but that’s it.

3 weeks into a Geography PGCE, I was given English lessons to teach because there was no English teacher.

Don't you remember Michael Gove saying "people are sick of experts"? Unfortunately most people didn't realise how deep that went in the Tory Party. Anything to save a few quid.