To expect my child to be taught by a teacher with a degree in that subject?

[northlundunmum]

My child is in year 8 and in their school
has “Humanities” which is history and geography combined rather than taught separately- not great in my view but ok. However, this year they are being taught by a music teacher. No doubt a very talented musician but according to my child they admit not being very good at teaching history or geography.

I do understand there are teacher shortages and sometimes some teachers will have to cover for others but this seems to be a permanent arrangement at least for this year.

Does anybody know what the DfE / Ofsted rules / guidance are on this? I understand you have to have a degree in a subject in order to train to teach it at secondary level (or at least used to) - does that not extend to actually teaching the subject in school?

Grateful for advice from anyone who knows the law / regulations here as want to approach the school about it and want to be clear what’s reasonable to expect and what they should in fact be doing according to govt policy.

Thank you!

Oh, bore off. I’ve had enough of you now. PLEASE don’t reply.

It’s a fact that many teachers don’t make it to the 5 year mark. I worked with a guy who left for a job at Aldi head office… it’s disgraceful that teachers aren’t supported in what could be a lifelong career, especially since the majority of them really love teaching and really love kids. The profession is in a sorry state and it’s the kids who suffer the most.

No you do not have to have a degree in a particular subject in order to teach that subject.
I did a 4 year bachelor of education degree. I am qualified to teach all ages and all subjects from 4 to 16 but I had to chose a particular age group and subject to specialise in.
I specialised in maths so at secondary school level I would be more like to get a job teaching maths but I am not limited to just maths.
During my 4 year degree I only had 3 lessons on how to teach geography but would still be expected to be able to teach it.

Many music and PE teachers will have trained in another subject because they don't have enough students to fill a full timetable. It's possible that the music teacher is also a trained history teacher. Where I've worked ours have taught various other subjects including Maths and English.

Oh and it annoyed me greatly that our Head of English didn't have a degree in English so I do feel your pain!

I don’t even have a GCSE in a subject I’ve taught for 25 years

This is what it's like unfortunately. Not everywhere, not all the time but too often. Teaching isn't valued, the workload is illness inducing under the regime of some heads and the pay is mediocre for the level of education and hours put in. Schools will be focusing their best and most qualified staff on core subjects and exam groups. I just want to cry at what we are doing to young people with how we educate them. Also for the teachers who are holding the system together. This is not what a life enhancing, inspirational and positive school experience is meant to look like.

I don't have a degree in my subject - my degree is in Primary Education (so I have QTS) I teach a GCSE subject and have done for 2 decades.

My students get excellent results, I get excellent observations. Nobody would know I don't have a degree in the subject if I didn't tell them!

You are not being unreasonable to want your child's teacher to have a degree in the subject they teach - in an ideal world, we would all probably like that. However, as others have stated, it is unreasonable to expect every teacher to have the relevant degree because of the chronic shortage of teachers.

This is a situation that has been developing for years and there are many factors that have contributed to it. It certainly true that in a great many cases, teaching is a thankless job (sometimes dangerous, often ridiculed), not well paid for the hours required, and often suffers from lack of support from the SLT or parents. Don't even mention OFSTED.

Before I became a teacher, I worked as a Cover Supervisor (I have a degree in English Literature) and could find myself covering absolutely anything from French to PE - and I certainly wasn't qualified to help anyone with Maths! There were so many absences, some because of training courses but most because of illness, that I got to see some classes more often than their actual teachers.

I believe you. I know of teachers from England who have moved to Scotland because of the better conditions.

I'd want the teacher to have a degree to teach at A level. Up to GCSE I would be happy if they had an A level in it.

Hi, possibly derailing question, but I have considered teaching a number of times and have applied, but then dropped out in the past (quite awhile ago now) I have a BSc in chemistry and an MSc in computing. I got these a couple of decades ago and have worked using one of them since. I'm 40's, is it worth going into now?

Classic response from someone unable to form a coherent counter argument.

I know 3 people who have done that, too.

£48k within 5 years, 35 hour weeks, and only having to teach my own specialism. No OFSTED.

Yabu. All you lot do on here is slag off teachers and no matter how many teachers stay it’s not a doss you all bleat on about how it is. That’s why you have no teachers

@twistyizzy my school also tells parents that all teachers are subject specialists. Yet there are teachers teaching A Level that don't have a degree in it themselves! You'd be surprised.

I’m officially a languages teacher but taught history. I much preferred it and I was better at it to boot. Not having a degree didn’t hold me back but admittedly I love history and read a lot about it, watch documentaries and listen to podcasts. I don’t think having a degree is the most important part but the passion for the subject and willingness to learn themselves. Admittedly, teachers get shoved on all sorts of subjects and this might not be a good fit for this teacher. However, that isn’t their fault and more a sign of the times with stretched budgets and teacher shortages. Personally, I drew the line at teaching A-Level as I didn’t think I’d do it justice and left teaching after a short time anyway. We also had an Ofsted inspection that year and I was forewarned that they’d picked up on how many non-subject specialists they had and to expect an observation as they wanted to check the quality of the teaching so they do keep an eye on things like that.

It does depend though. My school wouldn’t employ someone who didn’t have a degree in Maths to teach Maths. Plus very few Secondary School teachers these days take the BEd route.

YANBU. Even for year 8 this isnt ok. And imagine how annoying it must be for any teacher to not be teaching the subject they know but some other subject. Not ok at all and rubbish that we've got to a point where its the only solution and people say "oh well its only year 8, it could be worse".

I would recommend asking to do some shadowing in a school to see how you find it.

@Bluevelvetsofa This is completely untrue! The Headteacher and deputy will hold it to start with. All secondary teachers will have QTS whether that was through an undergrad, postgraduate or route into teaching course. It's how the DFE and education Council regulate teachers. Yes there will be a small number of HLTA staff and unqualified teachers but you won't have just the senco with QTS!

In response to your post OP. Many teachers are being stretched to their limits. Yes while some will have degrees in more than one subject it's fair to say most will only hold it in their own subject. Many friends are secondary teachers are going across departments so that pupils still have a lesson as opposed tocjust being set cover and teaching themselves which is surely worse than no teacher at all. Y8 yes they need support but there aren't choices to be made, exams or settling in like y7. They might surprise you OP!

Lots of teachers teach more than one subject. They don't have a degree in both.

I'm running through my secondary teacher friends in my head - half of them are teaching subjects other than their degree.

No I wouldn't. Sorry but I know the names of each of DDs teachers and their qualifications and industry experience are on the website so I can cross reference. All teachers are minimum of MA/MSc with a few PhD + all QTS.