Non Kennel Club Lab

[purplemonkey12]

More of a WIBU! We got a Lab puppy in October. At the time, they were advertised as KC-registered Labs. The breeder sent us the details of both the mother and father and we saw both dogs. We paid 1300 for the puppy (which is a lot for us!). The vendor told us that she was in the process of registering the puppies and would send us the details.
I'm not quite sure what's happened with the vendor, but she seems to have had a bit of a meltdown (I think a family crisis) - and either hasn't or can't register the puppies. I'm honestly not sure what's going on. She's stopped responding to texts etc. A friend of ours also has one of the puppies and she's not responding to them either. We (obvs) love our puppy, but we also might want to breed from her and so the KC registration is important. Just not quite sure where to go from here! Any thoughts?!

We don't feel had!

The breeders only bred that one litter to give themselves a new farm dog. Our Luna sees her big brother and mum around once every month when DH is on fam. She's been a perfect dog with no issues at all. She's taken to therapy dog training and dog agility (for autistic children) like a dream. The trainers all comment on her trainability as being exceptional. She's been worth every penny as a suitable dog for DH to take to work and as a support for autistic DD1. Perfection in dog form!

You need to look these out, then you can check on the KC website that both parents exist. And how many previous litters the dam has had (KC limits how many litters can be registered per bitch in an effort to limit over-breeding, plus what age the bitch is - must be over 2 at first mating and under 7 at last whelping))

ONLY the breeder can register the puppies - they need written confirmation from owner of the stud dog that the mating took place, and mating confirmation paperwork is shared only between those two owners and is used to register the whole litter. The breeder then supplies each purchaser with a certificate which lets them change the KC registration to their name.

So yes, I think you've been scammed.

The other scam is talking about the KC Activities Register. This is not the same as the breed register, but I think the unscrupulous sometimes play on people not grasping that. Anyone can register any dog at all on the Activities Register - which attests nothing about pedigree but does permit entry to affiliated competitions in eg agility

@wetotter i guarantee she doesn’t have them

All of that would apply to the vast vast majority of properly bred lab litters

Nothing at all you’ve said explains why you paid a 200% premium for the puppy, other than the breeders saw you coming and took advantage of you needing a therapy dog.

Obviously you feel like your pup was worth overpaying for, but it doesn’t mean normally-priced litters are underpriced as per your original comment. You were just as naive

@tenbob Unfortunately those were the sort of insane prices that puppies were going for during the pandemic.

Thankfully prices are starting to go back to normal now, presumably because the unscrupulous people who thought they could turn a profit from breeding are struggling to get rid of puppies at these exorbitant prices.

So many opinions and not actual facts more a case of I have a dog so therefore I know everything.

It's easy to have an affix.
It's easy to register a legitimate litter.

It actually means very little.

The one with the annual November meet up was the best of all. Really made me laugh thanks for that. You are every back yard breeders dream.

I bred labs for many years. I had a waiting list. I bred occasionally. I had my own stud dog. Must've been a puppy farmer then.

I remember it well.

I have working labs, and a total stranger approached me on a walk to ask if would be interested in breeding any of them, as she has a dog who she wanted to stud and we could share the proceeds of the litter.

I gave her a piece of my mind and she backtracked and said it was only because her lad was such a brilliant dog and would make great pups, but she couldn’t answer a single question about his lines.

A lot of the good breeders sat out that year, partly because with shoots closed and field trials cancelled, they needed more time to work with their dogs at home.

did you ever sell without getting kc registered?

What difference does it make? Will you love her less? Are you ashamed at the idea of having a non-kc registered dog? Is the idea of breeding from her not as appealing or profitable now?

Personally, I went out of my way to make sure my dogs were from somewhere with zero links to the KC cos it's a disgusting organisation.

gumtree ad?

@regenerate

Absolutely not. I also turned down people who were clueless about dogs. Their research brought them to me which was fine but they really should've put time into educating themselves about owning a dog and all it entails.

curious how you managed to seek out a breeder that specifically did not KC register their pups

@regenerate

Was that for me?

I only had registered litters. My point was it's easy to register so why not bother?

Personally, I went out of my way to make sure my dogs were from somewhere with zero links to the KC cos it's a disgusting organisation.

sorry!!

all meant for @Caerulea

Lots of assumptions being made without enough enough information about registrations, breeders, scam etc!

@purplemonkey12 As has already been advised, check the registrations of the dam and sire on the KC website (the health test section), all being well they will be on there with their respective hip and elbow scores, in addition to any eye testing if having had tests over and above a normal eye test - Labradors normally have enhanced eye tests to check for conditions such as PRA.

Secondly contact the KC and ask if the registrations may have been delayed - it is possible. The KC have now cleared the backlog of registrations but that does not mean there may not have been a delay with this litter.

If you are advised there has been no delay then ask the KC for help - tell them the name of the breeder, the sire and dam, advise them you purchased a supposed KC registered puppy but you do not have the registration in order to transfer ownership.

Take it step by step until hopefully a resolution is reached.

As to breeder, unless you have vast experience and have done it before please do not.

By wanting a breed of dog that was bred for character not revolting standards that destroy the health of the animal? By not going to a 'breeder' at all cos I don't think dogs should be assets that you just breed from for money - over & over, it's vile 🤷🏼‍♀️. The are animals, not status symbols.

Cept for some they are a status symbol which is why I can think of few places it would be worse to besmirch the KC than MN, but I couldn't care less. They are disgusting.

The KC is a database. It keeps records of dogs. This includes pedigrees and health test results as well as results from competitions and details of registered breeders.

Breed standards are discussed and changed at breed club level as well as KC level. It's actually breeders who judge shows and are high up in the hirachy who set breed standards.

So if a bunch of judges repetatly don't place chocolate labs, breeders won't breed them for shows. Over time the colour will become undesirable because a) they don't get placed and b) they are filtered out of the gene pool and are not represented enough.

Could it be an issue with the KC? We have a KC registered dog that we bought from a breeder who we know personally and good friends with. The KC registration drove her mad, it took several months to come through and she was emailing them constantly.

doesn’t explain the radio silence from passing over of money to present day

I read it as conditions like not having papers so the dog could not be bred from (at least not to have a registered litter).

KC registration isn't a guarantee of a well bred, well reared litter. Nor a guarantee against falling into the hands of puppy farmers.

These days, registration is not even a guarantee you're getting a pup with the lineage claimed on its papers - ask the people who've DNA tested their KC registered cocker spaniels and found they have a sprocker!

And not every unregistered litter is poorly bred from non-health tested parents with no regard to temperament or working ability or improving the breed, or from dodgy puppy farmers who are over-breeding and not registering the 'extra' litters.

I had a family member who bred, competed in confirmation showing and judged KC shows for his breed. He got so fed up with the KC's inaction on health issues and welfare that he flounced and refused to register any subsequent litters. He and his dogs were amazing. He's no longer with us, but when he was, he bred infrequently and interviewed [grilled and cross examined] prospective buyers with care when planning litters, and he had the puppies' backs for life. Registered or not.

I currently have, shock horror, a non-KC registered working line cocker spaniel. I don't want to compete in working tests, or breed, so it makes no difference to me. I wanted a healthy dog with a reasonable but not ridiculous working drive and a nice temperament for living as part of the family. That's what I got. In am ideal world , e'd have been KC registered as well but in the scheme of things, that weighed less with me than all the boxes that WERE ticked by his litter: both parents were fully health tested clear and hip and elbow scored; I knew the dam and two of her previous litter and liked their temperaments; I knew her owners so could be 100% sure I was buying from genuine people who breed occasionally to keep a puppy and that they would care for the litter well; I had seen the (KC registered) sire work and liked him.

However, the breeder was straight with me re lack of papers for the dam and therefore the puppies. The alarm bell for me re KC registration in the OP is being told one thing, and that then not happening.