How to broach personal hygiene to friend?

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A group of us have a friend who has had some serious issues over the last 20 years which have resulted in some mental health issues. This lady is mid 40's and has a lot of pets. Unfortunately they keep breeding and toilet all over the house, including on her clothes. It has reached a point, has been for several years, where you can smell her before you can see her. Our friendship group seem to be "too nice" in that no one has directly mentioned it. However we were out and a passerby said loudly "OMG what is that terrible SMELL?" as they went past her, which she seems to have heard. She did ask the group directly but none of us fessed up and was honest, making excuses like "oh I have a cold at the moment" or blatantly lying. I really don't know what to do for the best and whether talking to the group about taking some sort of action is the best way forward. We've just let her get on with her own thing and not wanted to sound rude in the past but the direct questioning of it made me realise that she doesn't actually know, which I think we all assumed she did and it was a choice. She fell out with a friend recently by arguing that she washes and does self-care "just for men" and became very judgemental, to the point the friend now won't speak to her. I don't want to approach this in the wrong way. She has access to hot water, mum lives nearby, friends offer facilities. Is she just happy doing her own thing or should we be doing more as friends?

@Quitelikeit I think I am worried that if I did this she would think (rightly) that everyone lied to her and be even more upset, which is why perhaps a group approach for the future is a better plan?

@Shinyandnew1 yes, which is why I think I am worrying - hard to know if she does care or doesn't when she asks directly.

It does also affect us as we sit and eat, which can be hard to do when the smell is pervasive. So far we all seem to be happy to lump it but it isn't just affecting her in that sense. I'm aware that sounds nasty and it isn't meant to be, but it is the reality of being around her with her agency.

This! And the 'despising folk who wear make up' I dislike her, and I've never met her 😳

I would bring it up like you’ve only just noticed. Do not tell her you’ve been aware for a while or that other people have noticed. It’s highly likely that it will cause a fall out however you do it.

I think your intentions are good op but I am not sure there is any point in saying anything. People like this are a law unto themselves. And they tend to blame the messenger.

“Hi friend I’m so sorry we didn’t tell you the truth the other day, we didn’t know how to tell you but the truth is that there is an odour coming from your clothes. We suspect it’s the animals causing it. I’m sorry to be so blunt but I don’t think a good friend would leave you open to ridicule and ostracism by hiding the truth. Is there anything I can do to help?

I can’t see how telling her would make a difference tbh. Your other friend tried and look at the reaction she got.
I have a similar friend (her house is really dirty) but know that she is aware and is not bothered . I now meet her at outdoor venues just to dilute the smell a bit. Not a solution as such but if people don’t want to change what can you do?

Actually take out the “we” and say “I” knowing you’ve all been discussing it behind her back and I’ll make her feel 20x worse.

I think l would be asking the question as to why you are friends with someone who despises people who wear make up, thinks self care is to attract men, and doesn’t seem to care that animal pee on her clothes or bag.🤮

This is more than someone who just smells. It seems to be a choice. Is she hoarding animals? It is a version of hoarding.

She sounds very unwell.

Our friendship group seem to be "too nice" in that no one has directly mentioned it.

for twenty years??!

does she work?

She despises people that wear makeup but happily goes out stinking of piss?
Personally I think your group has gone above and beyond including her, I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to spend time with someone that smells so bad it is eye-watering!
I would tell her and be quite glad to be the ostracised friend to be honest.

Our friendship group seem to be "too nice" in that no one has directly mentioned it.

for twenty years??!

does she work?

personal hygiene aside

this woman sounds profoundly unpleasant

i hope the animals are OK - animal charities will have advice, and possibly intervene, on the animal hoarding, she clearly is incapable of looking after them.

she “openly despises” people who wear make up

so no one in your friendship group ever wears make up?

The reason you don't say anything is because the relationship/person is fragile.

My mil has had dementia symptoms for about 10 years. In my family, which is dysfunctional but robust, we would have said something directly.

We haven't as mil has history for cutting out close family members permanently & fil enforces her decisions.

It's sorted now but took some doing.

Why we all went along with being polite to the point it was nearly a safety issues made me think about it a lot.

You think she won't cope with the truth & the messenger will be shot.

The animal issue is go back to the RSPCA if needs be down the line.

The smell issue. We have it with a workmate. I really like her but I wouldn’t dream of telling her. Each to their own and she does her job well. None of my business.

I would say it is quite common for adults not to be aware of nor take responsibility for working on their foibles/flaws. Some flaws impact the people around them more than others. I’ve seen it more than I have seen the other end where self awareness and growth lie. Just leave her be.

If a passer by noticed the awful smell and actually commented how in the name of goodness could you and your other friends bear to be around her ?

How can you stand to eat with her if she stinks that bad? I'd have dumped her years ago, she sounds and smells deeply unpleasant.

Honestly? I'd make an anonymous referral to adult safeguarding and the RSPCA. It's self neglect and neglectful to the animals. It sounds like she needs help from multiple agencies to get on top of this, including the RSPCA for support for neutering and removal of some of the animals.

I had a client who I had to do this for, for the same reasons. You'd wipe your feet on the way out of the house, not the way in. Services were really helpful, they were able to keep 2 (of about 18) cats and one dog (out of about 12) on the proviso that they were neutered. The rest were removed, neutered and rehomed. The RSPCA inspector described it as being as being as close to criminal as it could have been and had they not have responded to the support so well, they would have been prosecuted. The local authority (possibly environmental health?) also supported in clearing the house.

Stop faffing about the truth hurts a lie is worse so be blunt.
Ive been around some people that say they cant clean up because they're depressed and have low income.
My reply is well i was on benefits but i didnt live like a pig.
My sister has suicidal depression she cleans up and dont stink of pet piss.
Sometimes you just cant help.
A woman up my street has 7 dogs 4 cats she stinks smell her before you see her and covered in dog hair god knows what her home is like.

The trouble is, is this is something she cannot help/do anything about.

Of course she is going to get defensive, because it’s offensive and it’s not something she can change, so she’s acting like she’s ok with it.

My mum is very similar and will also get very defensive, which we all would.

If someone had just had a baby and it kept spitting up milk and someone mentioned that she smelt like old baby milk, she’d get very annoyed and defensive.

You could pretend it’s like a new smell and offer to use your washing machine but tbh I don’t know if that’s going to help.

If you want to help then it needs to be by getting to the route of the problem and that’s helping to get rid of some of the pets or suggesting that they’re kept in separate rooms to the clothes etc but IME someone with these sorts of MH issues are extremely difficult to help.

If she is telling you that a pet wee’d on her bag then encourage that conversation and suggest keeping the pets out of her bedroom and kitchen (depending on how big her home is).
Say you had a friend who had cats and her clothes would smell so this friend had 1 or 2 rooms where the cats couldn’t go and she’d wash and dry her clothes in those rooms, whilst the other rooms had less fabric in and was easier to wash down.

Coming up with actual solutions (but in a way that’s not directed straight at her so she’ll get defensive) is going to be much more helpful than just telling her she stinks.

I get very frustrated that we don’t have stricter pet laws.

Having lots of pets correlates with MH issues and getting overwhelmed with them creates even more MH issues, so it’s a vicious cycle.

She obviously loves her animals so she’s not going to give them up easily but if it was more difficult to get them in the first place then we’d have a lot less of these problems.
I know it’s something the RSPCA has to deal with a lot.

I would focus on helping her get them neutered and even getting rid of some but that’s not going to stop her going out and getting some more.

I’d be contacting social services and the council if she rents. This sounds like a safeguarding issues with the hygiene, hoarding, animal mess, pets etc.

it’s basically self neglect.

Does she rent?

I think sometimes you need to be willing to sacrifice a friendship in order to be a good friend. I would meet her one on one and let her know that you've noticed the smell for a while but it has been getting worse and does she need any help with laundry and getting things reset.

If she's struggling with mental health she might be struggling with the motivation to get things washed / dried / put away and could maybe do with someone coming over (for motivation) and taking bags of laundry to one of those big laundrette machines to be washed and dried all at once.

I have adhd and sometimes tasks can feel massive and too overwhelming to start so I end up paralysed (not to this extent, I'd never let my pets suffer). Sometimes knowing someone is coming over is a massive help in kickstarting a tidy so I invite people fairly often and sorting out one perceived 'massive' task also makes everything else feel more manageable for a while afterwards.