How to broach personal hygiene to friend?

[Advicetohelp]

A group of us have a friend who has had some serious issues over the last 20 years which have resulted in some mental health issues. This lady is mid 40's and has a lot of pets. Unfortunately they keep breeding and toilet all over the house, including on her clothes. It has reached a point, has been for several years, where you can smell her before you can see her. Our friendship group seem to be "too nice" in that no one has directly mentioned it. However we were out and a passerby said loudly "OMG what is that terrible SMELL?" as they went past her, which she seems to have heard. She did ask the group directly but none of us fessed up and was honest, making excuses like "oh I have a cold at the moment" or blatantly lying. I really don't know what to do for the best and whether talking to the group about taking some sort of action is the best way forward. We've just let her get on with her own thing and not wanted to sound rude in the past but the direct questioning of it made me realise that she doesn't actually know, which I think we all assumed she did and it was a choice. She fell out with a friend recently by arguing that she washes and does self-care "just for men" and became very judgemental, to the point the friend now won't speak to her. I don't want to approach this in the wrong way. She has access to hot water, mum lives nearby, friends offer facilities. Is she just happy doing her own thing or should we be doing more as friends?

She asked you if it was her that the stranger was commenting on and instead of saying I think it might be your outfit does smell quite animally today you all lied??

@Moonshine5 so you think just leave her to it, as we have been, and let it continue is the kindest thing to do?

What about dealing with the source and addressing the hoarding of animals? Perhaps get her some help and advice about rehoming and neutering. Maybe it has got so out of control she just doesn't know how to re-home so many or have the finances to neuter. That way you're dealing with it without making it a 'her' issue and risking defensiveness. She only smells because the hoarding of pets has got out of control. Maybe if she had less of them they won't be pissing everywhere.

@duckpancakes essentially yes. Which is why I feel uncomfortable and have asked. It doesn't feel like we are being good friends if we can't be honest but I'm not really sure she wants honesty.

@NotQuiteNorma the friend she fell out with did used to take her with the animals to get them neutered when the free spaces came up at the vets. RSPCA have been round and seem satisfied. The house is not sanitary but I guess they aren't too worried about that as the animals are all healthy.

I expect this has all got so out of control that honesty would probably be seen as a personal attack. I would be looking at other ways of tackling it, like helping reduce the hoard of animals. There will be charities that can take on some if she's willing. If she's not willing then you have to accept she's choosing this to a degree.

@NotQuiteNorma a lot of the animal sheltered are full. Even though these are young animals they don't have space. She also sells some of them where she can. The neutering is an issue but short of us all paying for them all to be done and hoping that ends it (dubious as if strays are found the neighbours take them to her) which doesn't seem to be in line with personal choice. Her mum is not poor either but hasn't done this.

Your only other option is to all tell the truth which risks alienating her from the group but if you put your heads together could be done in a smart way that doesn't hurt her feelings. It's never easy. We assume we would all know if we stank but some people are in denial and others line your friend are so used to the ming that they become blind to it. It's like my plug ins, I get so used to them I can't smell it but everyone else comments how lovely or strong it smells.

Tell her it was her that smelled.
Tell her you didn't say anything at the time as you didn't want to mention it in a group situation.
Ask her if she needs help.'tell her you will let her know quietly in the future if she smells so she can quickly and quietly address the situation.

If she asked you about the stranger’s comment, she either wants honesty (do I really smell that bad?) and you should give it, or it’s a power thing and she’s almost daring you to say it. So say it kindly and factually.

She can choose to smell - that’s up to her - but pretending she doesn’t is dishonest when asked outright about it. She probably knows she smells a bit animally but has no idea of how bad it actually is. Tell her.

@NotQuiteNorma I think we are all worried she will break the friendship as she did with the other friend and end up not talking to anyone. If one of us says something without the others she will just drop us and the rest of the group won't bring it up again.

I'm struggling to understand why you would want to be friends with someone who neglects animals, stinks to high heaven and is so judgemental about other people's choices to wear make up or take showers. She sounds thoroughly unpleasant.

So what's the worst thing about if she does drop you all as friends? Her presence is being noticed by strangers not in a good way and she doesn't seem to want to change. Would the group not just carry on without her? Perhaps tell the group they all need to say something.

I’m too direct some say I wouldn’t think twice about mentioning her smell. She needs help so I would look at getting her that too. Are you in the UK or America?

I would tell her. In person, one-to-one.

I'd say "i didn't say anything the other day when you asked us all together as I didn't want to embarrass you/ruin the day out, but honestly, I have noticed the animal smell those strangers commented on too. The smell doesn't bother me as long as you are happy, but since you asked for the truth, it's been playing on my mind and I think you deserve an honest answer. Before you asked, I assumed you already knew and were making a conscious choice to snell that way, but your question made me realise that of course no-one can objectively smell themselves (silly me, etc..)".

Yes, she might turn on you, but if she does, that's on her. She might be more hurt the next time a stranger makes a comment and she realises you've all been lying to her for ages despite experiencing the same smell the disgusted commenters are experiencing.

@BreatheAndFocus thank you - I think it might have been a control thing, so being kind and factual sounds like the way forward. She talks about the animals messing on things openly so she is aware but I think she might be daring us to say something, which is why it felt a bit like a trick.

Is it possible to talk to the whole group about why nobody else spoke up and tell them they all need to be on board?

Sounds like animal abuse to me, I'd be reporting her to the RSPCA

@NotQuiteNorma yes, that is what is my plan this week. I wanted to get some ideas from a wider group on here as we have all been doing this for years, so maybe aren't being objective about tackling it.

You could open conversation with the fact you fully respect its her choice how she chooses to live, but as she asked previously when a stranger commented that you have noticed often there's quite a strong smell from her pets on her clothing ?

@NCADHD Someone already did that but they are happy that the animals are fine and cared for. A couple of us think it was someone in the group trying to help, but no one has admitted it and she thinks it was a nasty neighbour.

I did something similar with a work colleague m. She got a new role in the business and her personality changed, and not for the better. Everyone was talking about it.
I started the convo with “I’m only telling you this because I care about you” which was the truth. I didn’t tell her she was the talk of the town but gently pointed out a few changes in her personality. I hated that she was being gossiped about. She knew I spoke to her about it because I cared about her and was sad to see how she’d changed. We ended up having several chats about it. It turns out she was really unhappy in her new role and had since swapped back to her old one.

‘Hey x how are you? I hope you don’t mind me sending this but you know a few weeks ago when you asked if we could smell xxxx and everyone said no. Well tbh I could actually smell xxx but I really didn’t want to hurt your feelings amd I still don’t but as you are such a good friend I wanted to let you know XoXo

She is educated and doesn't seem to care what other people think

but she obviously did care what the person in your OP thought as she asked if it was her.

Yeah. As you're such a good friend I just wanted to let you know you really do stink of piss OXOXOX! 😁