to think my aunt, in a care home, should be allowed more than one shower a week?

[LuluBlakey1]

My aunt is 92 and has been in a care home for 4 weeks for respite care. The fees are £1300 a week. It emerged this morning that residents are only bathed or showered once a week. She washes herself with a flannel and soap every day- no help is available for this.

I asked the question of the 'senior' on duty and was told it is all they can manage and there is a rota. Some residents have alzheimers/dementia and can be difficult and some have medical conditions so must have more baths/showers. In the month she has been there she has never had a bath- not enough time for that and has only had 4 showers.

I was horrified. I thought they must be short staffed but apparently not.

AIBU to think if you are paying £1300 a week for a care home, you should have the choice of a bath or shower every day?

YANBU for thinking this should be ideal.

However, if there are 20-30 residents who all need assistance from one or two staff and they all need a daily bath or shower, how many staff members do you think that would require ?

No, they are not short staffed to provide care but that can’t include a daily shower for all, unfortunately.
Would you be able to help with showering ?

If there are 20 or 30 residents and they pay 13 hundred a week, then yes, they should have enough staff to provide more than a shower a week.

@redheadsaregreat It was explained above how self-funders are in effect subsiding those placed and funded by the LA. It's estimated that the typical self-funder pays 40% more than the LA rate.

This is sort of what she has when she is at home. 3 x 30 minute visits or 3 x 45 minute visits.

If there are 20 or 30 residents and they pay 13 hundred a week, then yes, they should have enough staff to provide more than a shower a week.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat, agree, but the reality is most don’t and they have 2-3 care staff for 30 residents, use supermarket own brand for food and most of the time residents get a poor deal.
Profit comes first unfortunately.

I have no intention of showering her. She is an aunt by marriage (she married my dad's brother) and we have never been close. She has always been quite a difficult person. I don't have a great deal of affection for her but, as she is now alone (apart from a sister who is elderly, lives some distance away and they don't get along at all) I have helped her. I do her shopping, take her to medical appointments, the dentist, out for coffee/lunch , organise her house repairs, wash her bedding, ask her here for lunch, but I have no intention of helping with personal care. And if she is paying £1300 a week, I don't think there should be any expectation that anyone would.
I would have helped my mum- I would have done anything to help my mum and did but this woman is not someone I have ever been close to and she has caused difficulties in my dad's family throughout her marriage.

I could- as well as having a full-time job, 3 small DC and a house to run- but I don't want to and shouldn't have to. She is paying £1300 a week for respite care for herself.

Interestingly, in the conversation with her social worker about her options, the social worker was very quick to say they would not fund a continuing place in this care home if she remained and her savings ran out, because of the costs.
She didn't think anyway it is the right place for my aunt long-term and my aunt does not want to stay there. I can see she is more frail in the few weeks she has been there because she is just sitting all day.

I have no idea how many staff they would need. It must depend on residents' needs- physical and mental and medical conditions. I have no idea how staffing is rota'd- are there more staff on at key times? 7-9.30am, 6.30-9pm? That must be the biggest demand I would think. Do they overlap rotas then? I don't know. Do you? Can you explain how it works?

It was me, I was responding to someone who asked about staffing difficulties, commented on how they work in a home with foreign carers who barely speak English which causes problems and don't actually want to do the job of caring. I was saying none of that is an issue here- they are fully staffed with local people who all seem very nice to the residents.

Sorry to say it’s normal now and takes much more time to shower or bath someone then a flannel wash does.

“I have no idea how many staff they would need. It must depend on residents' needs- physical and mental and medical conditions. I have no idea how staffing is rota'd- are there more staff on at key times? 7-9.30am, 6.30-9pm? That must be the biggest demand I would think. Do they overlap rotas then? I don't know. Do you? Can you explain how it works?”

@LuluBlakey1 ,No they tend to work 12 hour shifts, usually 8am to 8pm but it varies from home to home.

Some staff can be on for an early shift eg 8 til 13.00 or late shift such as 13.00 til 20.00. Extra staff can be brought in for the half shift if needed but it won’t be to provide showering specifically.
Also, If a staff member is owed hours, they may work a short shift instead of 12 hours and that would leave the unit short staffed so it works both ways.

I did work at a nursing home and they had a reg nurse and 2 carers for 22 residents.
Majority of residents needed 2 staff to wash them, dress and up in chair.
Nurse would do meds/ dressings /GP round/ update care plans/ order blister pack meds etc

The 2 carers would finish getting people up by about 11.(Several would have breakfast in bed)
If they had to give even most a bath or shower it would take all day and nothing else would be done. The residents already up would be neglected.

Sometimes family would come in and help with showering if that’s what their relative wanted. That’s why I asked.
I get why you don’t want to do this.

My dad isn't able to shower without help. I don't believe it would be good for his dignity to have his daughter help with this.

This one has about 45 residents over two floors- the top floor is a dementia unit. There seem to be more patients up there with about 18 on the ground floor, some of whom also have dementia. There are 4 staff on the ground floor at any one time. Two seem to be more senior and two more junior. No idea if they only work on that floor.
My aunt needs no nursing care and could be showered by one member of staff- she is at home and has to sit on a bath seat for the shower. Here there is a proper wet room and she sits in a chair. She can dress herself.

Surely the standard of care should be that patients/residents are kept clean. For some that may require one bath per week; for others that may require daily bathing.

Is your aunt unclean OP?

14 years of the Tories. A general narrative in the press that all immigration is bad. An aging population. This is the result. Votes matter.

She smells 'stale'.

@MedSchoolRat I agree that bathing is a flash point for many older people, especially those with dementia/brain issues. I had a relative like this, however lying all day in bed exacerbated skin folds/irritation and they were incontinent, so a quick flannel wash was not enough to get rid of debris or stop their skin getting irritated. It's a difficult one, in their case we ended up kind of enforcing enough washing (two or three showers a week) to get clean and flannels in between which they didn't like but had to accept. It was also an opportunity to move them, clean their bedding and to check for bedsores, which does not occur if a quick flannel wash is done on patients in their beds, plus I have my suspicions that people aren't cleaned properly with a flannel in their private areas because staff don't want to pay attention to them for reasons of privacy and intrusion, but that then leaves them unclean and likely to get infected.

Being old is so horrible, I dread this type of crappy care.

I also meant to say @LuluBlakey1 what you are doing for your aunt is a lot. As you say she is not a close relative but you've stepped up to help her, take her out, support her in getting care, you shouldn't then be required to go and shower her, I wouldn't want to do that for anyone except very close relatives (which I have done).

I’m no longer in the UK. But husband has had a serious injury and is in a care home until he recovers

I really don’t care what their staffing levels are, I expect my husband is washed/ showered properly. He’s been told this weekend they are struggling for staff. Hard as it sounds, that isn’t his or my issue. If he feels grubby he should have access to the shower. Op you are not wrong.

My fabulous neighbour/friend who is an amazing woman is in the same expensive car home. She rings the bell and no one comes despite exorbitant fees or the staff tell her “We”re busy” . She’s dosed up on morphine and very very scared. She’s terrified ( mainly due to the morphine) she called me tonight to sit with her, it annoys me that these people have paid a fortune in taxes but is frightened, no staff are available to hold her hand/ comb out her hair/ help with makeup ( she’s very particular Re her appearance). I
sat with her tonight till she fell asleep in an opiate fuddled state. Really think our community should do/be better.

I am really shocked by the high prices and lack of humanity which appears the norm due to ‘staffing issues’ within care homes. As a middle aged, forty something person this will be us next. It’s no fun to be scared, alone, and for bells not to be answered.

Slightly different as I work in the community but all care regardless of if you are in a nursing , residential or in your own home or any form of care received anyway for that matter should be person centred .Not having enough staff is always the reason and it stinks .And yes I did many years ago work in a residential home , this was the overriding reason I went into the community .I fully get with dementia any sort of personal care is extremely difficult and challenging at times due to capacity .Me personally I think showers are much better but it is the individuals choice and depends on mobility etc .If as the OP said her relative needs minimal supervision then she should be able to have a shower as she wishes as personal care .

The saying in care is you are working in their home ,it may be your place of employment but it is their home .If someone told you you were not "allowed" a shower in your own home and you were capable, then what would your response be , I know what mine would be . I have worked in care a very long time ,years and I fully advocate for pcc. Sadly it is rarely followed as the truth is homes are too short staffed and it is just unacceptable .Apologies in advance to anyone I may offend who works in a care home but it is just not right .We hear some awful stories off people who have been for respite in care homes and then come back home and seen lack of care first hand too .Not at all saying every home is the same at all .But it happens .

I need to add also , the 11% who think OP is being unreasonable .Imagine yourself , elderly but able to do your own personal care with minimal assistance so you are not asking for staff to talk long , barely minutes .You live In a home , your home you pay through the teeth to live in .Meal times are set , normally , more often than not you do not choose what you get to eat unless it is a very exclusive home ,you may have a choice of say a couple of different foods . You want a shower in a morning , a care worker says no you are not allowed think about the word "not allowed in your own home" .All your life you have been independent and coming into the home is highly likely unsettling and takes time .You expect you will be treated kindly . Need I say more .11% do you still think OP is unreasonable .

I may have got on my soap box a bit there but being elderly does not mean you should be stopped from doing anything you are capable of .I care for some amazing people in my job and myself and everyone else I work with will do our best to ensure they remain as independent as possible .I would be really upset if any were to go in a home and were treated this way .

This makes me so sad and @SpanielsMatter you are an amazing lady 💐.No one should ever feel scared and sad when living in a care home. And not answering the bells , no excuse .Many years ago when I first started in care in a home , only young I held the hand of a man as he passed away , I was told oh you are being silly , you will soon get fed up and hardened to it .I have never forgot that gentleman .Human kindness is not silly and 30yrs on I have never hardened to death .We all deserve kindness in our final time on earth .

This isn't a fault of the Tories. Care has always been under resourced and over stretched. People don't value carers, despite them looking after our most vulnerable. I wonder if nursing standards would improve if all nurses were expected to work in a care home or community care for a semester as part of their training. It would help every part of the system!

What also doesn't help is the current narrative of "they've worked all their lives why should they pay" that's running through society. If you want something funded by and run by the state expect it to be done of a very shoe string budget!

We pay quite a bit more but mum can have as many showers as she wants. Which isn't as many as the home staff want. My mum also tells me privately that she wants to have more showers but she forgets that I looked after her for 3 years prior to coming to the home and know that she's a greasy little shower avoider