To ask for a refund as holiday has changed substantially?

[Loveabathtub]

Not really a AIBU, more can anyone help me with where we might stand legally?

We booked a tailor made holiday through a company called Dial A Flight on 23.09.2023. It was to be a holiday of a lifetime that straddled the exact dates of February half term, my birthday and Valentines day. It cost a considerable sum of money. It took weeks to plan and book and involved choosing direct flights to Mauritius where we would stay for 4 nights before flying onto Johannesburg from where we would travel directly onto our safari lodge. There we would spend a further four nights before flying on a direct overnight flight home.

However, yesterday we received a phone call to say that the flight between Mauritius and Johannesburg had been cancelled which meant that we would now only spend 3 nights in Mauritius and would then have to spend one night in Johannesburg before flying onto safari.

This is bitterly disappointing. We would never have booked or paid out so much money to travel all the way to Mauritius for just three nights. Neither would we have ever booked to stay one night in Johannesburg. I certainly do not relish packing and unpacking three times over the course of a week for me and my children. The holiday company are suggesting we change dates but this does not work with school holidays. They say we cannot get a refund just for the Mauritius hotel. Neither could we fly directly straight to Johannesburg from UK without considerable extra costs. We feel that this holiday has now turned into something we would never dream of booking.

We paid Dial a Flight for a specific holiday that we have in writing as being as being four nights in a specific Mauritius followed by four nights at a in a specific safari lodge in South Africa, it is now turning into something completely different. To add to this Dial a Flight are expecting us to shoulder all extra costs and losses.

We would like a full refund to be able to reconsider and rebook at another date. Dial a Flight say this is not possible as they have found an alternative flight that will be less than seven hours delay on the original. However due to the knock on effect on the connecting transfers this new flight results in more than a 24 hour delay in getting to safari.

Our contract is with Dial a Flight. We booked the whole thing as a package. We were only informed of this yesterday, three weeks before travel is about to take place. Can anyone help advise us of our rights?

@Loveabathtub - There is no legal definition of what constitutes a significant change to a package holiday. However, my view is that the change to your itinerary is a significant change. They are also increasing the price due to the change of itinerary. Regardless of anything in their terms and conditions, you have the right to cancel and receive a full refund if they increase the price for any reason other than fuel price rises, changes to taxes or fees by third parties or changes in exchange rates. They cannot increase the price just because they've changed the itinerary.

In my view you are entitled to a full refund. If you paid by credit card, you can claim the refund from your credit card provider if Dial A Flight refuse to cough up. If you have to take Dial A Flight to the small claims court, my view is that this would be an easy win for you, and they would then have to pay your court costs and interest in addition to the amount they already owe you.

Dial a flight don't operate the flights. They can't force a flight to take place. They are just a travel agent.
Why not spend a night in Johannesburg? Sounds like a great addition.
I don't think these are major changes and the bulk of your trip is still what you wanted. Don't really see a major difference in 4 nights to 3 nights tbh.
But I don't think there should be additional cost to you...it should be same price or less.

I wouldn't involve estate agents.

I agree with the pp who said to change it to 5 nights in Mauritius and 3 on safari assuming the flights the following day allow you to do this. You tend to see a lot on safari drives so probably wouldn’t really miss out.

I’d be annoyed too in your position as you’re now travelling on an extra day in what is already a tight schedule.

As for Joberg, a guided tour and visit to the apartheid museum is probably the best thing to do. Alternatively, a day trip up to the Cradle of Humankind and the Sterkfontein Caves is good but I think it’s probably a bit much with your schedule.

I used to live near the Lion Park that’s been mentioned a few times on this thread. There have been a few deaths there over the years. A tourist who got out of the car and a couple of locals who apparently climbed the fence to take a short cut and got in the way of a couple of cheetahs 🙁

Why is there extra cost? I would have thought that as you are substituting 1 night in Mauritius (expensive) with 1 night in Jo’berg (cheap) that there would have been a price reduction? Is the alternative flight significantly more expensive?

Would it be possible to go to your safari lodge a day earlier? So rather than 4 nights in Mauritius and 4 nights safari, it’s 3 nights Mauritius and 5 nights safari? As I wouldn’t want to spend 1 night of an 8 night holiday wasted in Jo’Berg either.

Actually forget my last suggestion, I agree with PP’s, 5 nights Mauritius and 3 nights safari would be better than the other way around. Safari can get a little repetitive after a couple of days whereas there’s so much to see and do in Mauritius.

I don’t know if it’s still available, but I once did a segway safari in Mauritius. It was bizarrely good fun. Basically, a predator free safari park and a bunch of people touring it on off road segways.

I don’t think the original itinerary was over ambitious. I also have a Feb birthday and did loads of similar trips in the Feb half term. My DC’s school always had the Friday before half term as an insert day so most years I’d squeeze in an 8 or 9 day long haul trip.
I would accept the change and enjoy the trip.
When you pack in Mauritius use one case as an overnight case for Johannesburg stuff, tooth brushes, clean T shirts etc and don’t even open or unpack the other cases. This is what I do when I have a night somewhere before a cruise.

No one can advise you of your rights based on what you’ve written, they would need to see the ts and cs you agreed to when you booked.

Having worked in travel and now being a lawyer (though this is not my area) I would expect there to be something in the ts and cs allowing them to make reasonable changes, particularly where something out of their control, such as a flight cancellation, happens. I suspect this may be considered a reasonable change but again there may be details in the ts and cs about what is reasonable.

Floods caused or made worse by the climate emergency that selfish people like the OP are contributing to massively. The people of Mauritius will have tiny tiny carbon footprints but will be getting hit first and worst by human causes climate change. It’s so unfair. I despair of those of us in the more developed world that just say ‘fuck it, I want my holiday!’ (Whilst stamping their feet and sulking like a toddler. A holiday abroad is not a need or a right. It’s a luxury that is causing so much suffering already.

Ok would change dates and go term time and put a request into school for holiday on the basis that you can't get a refund (they won't know this I'd you can), that you can't afford to looss the money and must change dates and there are no other school holidays dates. Your holiday will likely be approved by school then because it's unexpected. We had a holiday approved term time for a similar reason.

that absolutely is a significant change

i’d charge back and let them take you to small claims

goikg to a completely different destination - jo’berg- is a significant change given it wasn’t on original itinerary

don’t change dates unless getting consideration refund given i imagine you paid a lot more to go school holidays

@CoastalMummy

Don’t listen to all the scaremongering ref JoBurg. Assumedly written by people who have never been there. I recommend looking at staying in Melrose Arch which is a lovely bit of the city.

I was a frequent ( as in 5-6 times a year) visitor to JNB throughout the nineties and well into the noughties. I'll accept I have no recent experience.

As it happens the abduction of the airline crewmember I referred to upthread happened in Melrose Arch...

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/01/16/tropical-cyclone-belal-human-caused-climate-change-is-increasing-storm-intensity-in-indian#:~:text=Scientists%20say%20human%2Dcaused%20climate,island's%20capital%20city%20and%20elsewhere.

OP. You flying several times in one holiday will spew tonnes of carbon into the atmosphere. You can calculate how much and the equivalent (eg one short haul flight is often the equivalent of one person driving for a year).

That carbon will contribute to human causes climate change. This is causing more extreme weather events across the globe and will ultimately lead to mass extinction (humans included).

One example is the current situation in Mauritius. See article.

YABVU to spew so much carbon on one holiday. Those of us with the means to fly on holiday have a responsibility to cut down at worst, stop altogether at best. No one needs a holiday more than someone else needs food, shelter and their life.

oh do sod off with your carbon footprint

ops 3 flights a year don’t even minutely compare to the impact of industrial companies plus , celebrities, and business people flying countless times a month

give over expecting the everyday joe to limit their life when the big users do jack shit

@notimagain I frequently go to JNB (5-6 times a year) for business. I go solo as a little blonde woman. I keep my wits about me, as I would anywhere else, and i’ve never faced any trouble! I’ve been going for the past decade 🤷🏼‍♀️

The Mauritius aspect would piss me off, but if you are arriving in Johannesburg a day early, I am not sure how you will arrive at safari a day later?

I'd be most cross about additional 8% costs though, and would be going through the t&c's with a fine tooth comb and arming myself as much as possible with info about my rights before committing to any changes.

If you do end up going ahead, packing cubes are your friend for multi-stay holidays though, just pack them for each stop so you don't have to unpack and re-pack suitcases.

@Mirrorinthebathroom123 aviation contributes 3% of all anthropogenic emissions globally. Even if you use the x3 multiplier to account for emissions at altitude, it’s still less than our beloved fashion industry (standing at over 11% now!!). Go and protest outside primark 🙄

No, they can't force a flight to take place. However, as they appear to be offering package holidays, the package holiday regulations apply. OP is entitled to cancel and receive a full refund if there is a significant change to the holiday. OP is also entitled to cancel and receive a full refund if Dial a Flight increase the price for any reason other than changes in exchange rates or fuel prices, or changes in taxes or fees to third parties.

By their t's & c's, if the flight is under 12 hours difference they do not need to consider it a significant change, the fact that change has a bigger implication is not a factor. Also if the reason was outside their control (it is) and doesn't change the start or end time to your holiday (it doesn't) it isn't considered significant, plus if the flight time change was due to the recent flooding, it's considered a force majeur which means no compensation is due.
I understand you are disappointed but I think you need to make the most of it, have friends who live in Jo'berg and they say it doesn't warrant it's reputation, certainly no worse than many other popular places to take holidays (alas, no excuse for violence, just keep it in perspective)

It is annoying but it’s not their fault your particular flight was cancelled

I think you could fight this but tbh three weeks out I’d go anyway and make the best of it

Thank goodness, finally a sensible post re Jhb.

I am not even going to quote the others, as there will always be someone who posts about their neighbours friends aunty who visited and said they needed bodyguards etc 🙄

But then I knew it wouldn't take long for the SA city bashing to start.

OP, if you decide to go with the Jhb stopover, please feel free to DM me with the details of where they will book you. I promise I am not a stalker and won't pitch up there to find you 😂. But I will be able to give you an idea of what the area is like and what is nearby and if it's a good choice.

For the other posters, just FYI. I live in this city and have never had an bodyguard, a team of escorts or some security detail as mentioned upthread.

I think the JoBerg aspect is a significant enough change to be unacceptable - it wasn’t on your original itinerary at all.

It’s not their fault the flight was cancelled but not yours either. I can imagine it’s not a suffficent change to compel a refund but I’d certainly give it a shot.

I don’t think the reputation of JoBerg is the point - I wouldn’t want an enforced stay somewhere I hadn’t planned either.