Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

I live abroad and can tell you that other countries support parents (mothers) much much much better than the UK. It’s a choice. The Tory government doesn’t give a shit about people with young children. Most people in the UK have no idea really of how other nations live and treat their citizens… they go by what they read in the press which is mostly in accurate.

Seeing as we need "workers" to pay taxes, do work in unpopular professions, etc., I think the answer isn't to give "freebies" to all, but instead that the system is changed so that childcare costs (and public transport commuting costs) become an allowable expense against wages/employment income. That immediately makes "working" less expensive as it reduces the tax that the parent will pay to compensate towards the costs they face such as childcare and commuting. I think it could really help get people like teachers, nurses, doctors, etc., back either into the workplace after having children, or to be able to work longer, i.e. if part time, enable them to work extra shifts, extra days, etc., that we clearly so desperately need.

We planned to have a child, saving to cover my maternity as SMP is a joke and same to cover a few months nursery fees too, but it’s the cost of everything rising that it’s not viable.

It never made sense to me as to why the 30 ‘free’ hours (think this is misleading to begin with) was for 3 year olds, when maternity leave is only 12 months. Well, it’s really 9 months as the last 3 months are unpaid meaning mothers (mainly) have to return then.

I feel that the childcare should be part of the cms - that needs addressing for sure

We also have a race to the bottom issue in this country, as pointed out in this thread. People are happy to say ‘yeah well, in my day I did it on much less’ when everything cost a third of what it does now. Or comparing how great we are against America who is know for treating their citizens like shit. We can’t aim for better in this country due to our attitudes.

TbF it's pretty good. If they supported 2 years paid mat leave it would align better though. That gap between return to work and 2 year paid childcare is massive!

If you are old and well off, are you able to magically pay for young adults to exist at that time to be your care assistants, doctors and nurses?

Or will these young adults need to have been born as children some 20-40 years previously while you were whinging that people should pay for their own children, while people in their 20s-40s didn't have children because it was too expensive and society didn't help them out?

In other words, are you aware that adults used to be children?

I understand your frustration. It’s another example of how some benefits should not depend on a partner’s wages. I’ve long held the belief that if tax is not calculated by taking into account the partner’s income, neither should benefit entitlement. It is unfair that you lost your job because of illness and are now forced to depend on your partner.

Hopefully you can also see my point about how SMP (and to an extent high childcare costs) can put someone in a similar situation to yours and how that is also unfair.

Completely agree - it is depressing

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4985535-why-doesnt-the-country-support-having-children?reply=132240944&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

absolutely agree with this!

Most European countries have a higher childcare ratio. For example for under 3s it’s 4:1, whereas 3:1 in UK. It significantly increases cost. I’d be interested to hear if posters here would be interested in relaxing the ratios.

And what do you think when things have increased exponentially in the last few years and has caught families out, despite them preplanning?

Lots of people here saying how it was worse in their day. It was possible, though, right?

When you could afford to live on a single income, you might have had to scrape by, but it was possible.

Now much of the time, two incomes are needed. So for that period between the end of mat leave and the start of funding, you're fucked.

@NoCloudsAllowed thank you - nowadays we have no option but to have two parents working to cover the cost of bills etc. It would be great to have the option to have one parent at home but most don’t have that.

This country doesn't support anything for its citizens. Honestly, everything public-related is an absolute shambles at the moment. DVLA, NHS, Dentists, postal system, pubic transport, nurseries and schools underfunded etc...

@AlbatrosStrike calling bullshit on your post. PIP isn't means tested so your husbands salary shouldn't come into it.

About 12 years ago the Government proposed relaxing the ratios to 1:4 for under 3 and 1:3 for under 1 (I think it's currently 1:2).

Parents and nurseries both complained.

People want top quality childcare but at cheap as chips prices.

This is exactly the issue.

When was this? I certainly did! We got the 15 free hours the term after DS1 turned 3. That was in 2003 - during the Blair years. It reduced our nursery fees which was a help.

Did you mean to reply to the post I quoted?

Agree with others that nobody is being supported in the UK anymore - it’s a failing state.

Sorting out wages and housing costs would go a way towards making it seem more affordable to have kids, but the elephant in the room is that we’f all need to pay a lot more tax to get the scandi-services we all want, but nobody wants to pay more tax.

I doubt no one is being supported

State dependency is higher than ever.

Why is childcare so expensive in the UK?
My theory: in a lot of countries, mat leave is not the 1y that most consider standard here in the UK. Maybe money saved by the Gov there is used to subsidize childcare?
OP, would you be happy with a shorter mat leave for cheaper childcare? Shorter as in 3-6 months? Most women in the UK wouldn’t.

Circumstances change and even with preplanning, people can lose their jobs etc If you lose your job at least you don’t need childcare I guess. But more seriously, about the rise in costs, it is the same for everybody, not just parents of young children. So no, it wouldn’t be fait IMO to have taxpayers subsidize the parents of young children again when themselves they are having to make cuts (take older kids out of activities or fee paying school for ex). If nursery is too expensive have you looked into childminders?

‘Doesn’t support working families anymore’??? I’ve been a parent for many years, what sort of support are you thinking there was in the past?
There’s more support now for childcare than there’s ever been????

There's a general issue with low wages in this country. My salary wouldn't cover the cost of childcare, let alone the other costs of having a baby, and that's for one child. If we scaled back on our luxuries, we could survive on SMP, but that would deplete our savings. After maternity leave, we wouldn't manage on one salary if I gave up work and we can't afford childcare if I returned to work.
We are now in our thirties with no way to afford children in the coming years so we won't be having any children.