Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

I'm a bit baffled that you choose to have children and then expect the government to subsidise you? People have never received more handouts than they do today, free childcare, top up of income if you don't earn enough, as a previous post mentioned, I too have older children, the interest rate was 16.5% I worked full time in the City for a low wage and had a full time child minder. I wasn't entitled to a single penny of help, I chose to have the children, the government didn't force me in to it, it was my responsibility.

@alltootired

You do have to question if the mother of 5 has the skills or motivation to get a job even if free childcare was available.

Fathers shouldnt get off the hook either for the first 5 years of a child's life then the combined parental NI should be shared. This would avoid the gaps in NI record which many women suffer.

It's National Insurance, you can't claim on insurance unless you pay for it first.... @BlueGrey1 work for you?

When the interest rates were that high, other costs were lower. Yes, wages were lower too but comparatively, wages have risen much slower than costs.

Things were harder then for different reasons to what they are now. But because the help wasn't there then doesn't mean it shouldn't be now. Or that it can't be in place AND still not be enough for some people.

The help is there but for those of us that pay a decent whack of tax, its not available. So we're working hard, raising children, paying childcare fees and paying tax to help other people get childcare to work hard and pay tax. And, also, paying tax for people who aren't working to also have free childcare. That bit makes no sense. Unable to work, fine. Choosing not to work and yet being given free childcare, why?

Anyway, my point is, just because you had it hard doesn't mean everyone should and things should never improve. Or that the improvements don't need to make more sense.

You didn't get child benefit? It has been means tested since 2013 - but given your mortgage rate (equivalent to a 6% rate today fyi - which we have just had), I assume you had children before 2013, therefore presumably claimed this? Lucky you!

The return on investment for childcare is much better than for state pension. I parent might care for 2 children. In a childcare or school setting the ratios depending on age will be atleast 4:1 by school age it's 15:1.

Ideally this would boosts women's lifetime earnings to the same as men's. Adding 400bn/yr to GDP and 130bn/yr in tax revenues. It will also reduce benefits costs by £30bn. On a bang per buck basis I think you would struggle to find a better investment.

Similarly investing in offender rehabilitation would make a tonne of financial sense. But that's about as popular as a sh*t sandwich.

@traytablestowed
You didn't get child benefit? It has been means tested since 2013 - but given your mortgage rate (equivalent to a 6% rate today fyi - which we have just had), I assume you had children before 2013, therefore presumably claimed this? Lucky you!

Everyone received family allowance as it was in those days, it has only recently been called a benefit. Means testing it is a good thing too, the number of people stashing away Government money in a savings account isn't really what it is for.

The number of handouts and help given out is actually encouraging people to work less and live quite a comfortable lifestyle. I've even read such posts on here. I was under the impression you had to work hard for a good lifestyle, the world is very different place, I'm actually glad I won't be part of the future work force and have to pay to subsidise people's lifestyles. I have quite a few friends that have decided to leave the country for this very reason, we're also getting close to it too.

I too have older children, the interest rate was 16.5%

what about MIRAS?

Everyone received family allowance as it was in those days, it has only recently been called a benefit. Means testing it is a good thing too, the number of people stashing away Government money in a savings account isn't really what it is for.

I don’t think child benefit should be means tested, at the very least the bands should be increased as should the actual tax bands.

The number of handouts and help given out is actually encouraging people to work less and live quite a comfortable lifestyle

do you have actual data that supports this?

You aren’t penalised for not having children ffs. And there will not be enough people to pay for pensions at all if our birth rate continues to decline.

So when you said "I didn't receive a penny" what you actually meant was "I did receive money just for having children, as did everyone else at the time, but I resent other people also receiving money for the same reason now that it doesn't benefit me any longer"

Yup, I’m incredibly close to being ineligible for child benefit, despite my household income being only £60k.
I can’t mark exams this year like I normally do, as child benefit goes on gross not net, I’m in the 40% tax bracket, so I’ll be working an extra 100 or so hours over three weeks (on top of my full time job) and I’ll actually be frigging worse off. Which is mental.

Im better off working less days and putting my son in childcare even when I’m not working. I’m sure people do this.

They need to allow you to pool your allowances with your partner, if you have one. I’d be better off by doing that than I would from any childcare “benefits” that are on offer. And I’m sure it would be more palatable to the “back in my day” generation - who are sitting in their £300k houses that they bought for £5k.

@SisterHyster

It's the same as the winter fuel bill, another introduced benefit not everyone needs. It's just sent out blanket, just like family allowance was. Do you thing the pensioners sitting in the House of Lords really need to be receiving it?

I really wish I had been able to buy a house for 5K, unfortunately I sacrificed my social life to save for a deposit and worked 2 jobs to pay my mortgage. Despite what people think, it really wasn't any easier back then.

Come on now. The species hardly needs help to 'keep going'. We could reduce the number of humans on the planet by 90% and it would have no problem persisting. Have you seen the graphs of the population explosion in last hundred years or so?

I’m not sure pensioners in the House of Lords getting winter fuel allowance is in any way comparable to a couple on £60k jointly getting £20/week to help with childcare costs.

I wasn’t saying it was easier “back then” however it most certainly isn’t easier now either. “Back then” a normal three bed semi was affordable on a single non professional or semi skilled wage for a family with 2,3,4 or even more children. Now buying a three bed semi on a single income whilst simultaneously raising multiple children is only possible for comparatively wealthy people - I am a professional and we certainly couldn’t afford it on my wage alone. And no, we don’t get “benefits” except child benefit and “tax free” childcare - which I actually am still paying 20% tax on 🙄🙄🙄

Despite what people think, it really wasn't any easier back then.

@Santina everything i’ve seen shows salaries to house price ratio getting worse. What data are you referencing?

23% of pensioners live in social housing

Exactly. People who choose to have children on a burning planet are the selfish ones. They need to stop patting themselves on the back. It's a lifestyle choice and a destructive one at that.

Ironic considering this is Mumsnet.

People wouldn't need a top up if wages were living wages.

Shall I send mine back? This type of comment probably give the child free a bad name.

It's almost like the majority of topics on mumsnet aren't child related and it has entirely unrelated sections. 🤔

Exactly. People who choose to have children on a burning planet are the selfish ones. They need to stop patting themselves on the back. It's a lifestyle choice and a destructive one at that.

I'm sure your parents feel bad about it too

23% of pensioners live in social housing

That can't be right, apparently the state has never helped in the past!

And yet, without people having children, the species wouldn't continue.

I'm not saying we need to be popping out 10 kids each. But we do need children. We need people to carry on the population, however small it might need to be. We need people to do jobs once the people currently doing them retire and/or die.

Or are you suggesting that the childfree people are saving to be looked after in their old age by robots? Or their cats?

We'll all stop then. Bye human race.