Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

@biostudent that’s great for you, but other parents are paying £1.5k per month for 3 years

Why should I pay when others are getting free childcare

@Daphnis156

If you can't afford children, don't have them

I partly agree but it’s quite harsh as some people are on very low incomes because of circumstances and no fault of their own, it’s a difficult one

@Midwinter91
It really depends on which bit of USA. There are some bits where a house is cheaper than a normal family car. But the employment options are often grim.

@Daphnis156
@BlueGrey1

May be this should be a bit like the state pension, support for childcare would depend on your employment NI record. Let's say you need 15years employment/first child and +10 yrs for each one after that between mother and father to access free childcare hrs? This would support those who have been in work but are either down on luck or don't have a great income but would still reinforce the need for personal responsibility.

As 5 kids and never worked (as in a earlier post) shouldn't be a choice that everyone else has to pay for.

@ThinkingForward
That's a terrible idea.
According to that most people would be in their 30s-40s before having their first child..
Not to mention the increase risk of birth defects after 35.

@ChristmasTreeCookies did you read "between mother and father"

From my maths that lets say you are both the same age makes 18+7.5= 25.5 or uni 21+7.5=28.5 . Most ppl work and study so it would be between the two.

Average is around 28-29 these days. By sharing it between both parents then you don't discriminate against a couple with an age gap.

May be this should be a bit like the state pension, support for childcare would depend on your employment NI record. Let's say you need 15years employment/first child and +10 yrs for each one after that between mother and father to access free childcare hrs? This would support those who have been in work but are either down on luck or don't have a great income but would still reinforce the need for personal responsibility.

Why base it of years instead of salary contributions?

Probably an unpopular opinion lol but there's far too many humans on this planet already, and in this country alone. All the reasons people usually give for needing to maintain population growth are manmade issues that are inconsequential to the planet. Well, not inconsequential tbf as the consequences are pretty bad on the whole.

Needing more people to care for the overwhelming amount of people already existing is a manmade issue. Needing more workers to support the economy is also a manmade issue as the economy is a human creation. Current infrastructure (housing, roads, NHS, etc) is already struggling under the weight and arguably not fit for purpose.

I'm by no means one of those misanthropes who claims that humans are a scourge to the planet and would be happy to see mankind wiped from the earth for the benefit of the Tanzanian mole rat or whatever species is next on the extinction list, but it's quite clear that more humans all wanting more cars/houses/etc and all consuming and creating more waste is an exponentially growing problem. Each human creating several more humans, who create several more, etc etc.

There's no quick fix but I feel like society will increasingly feel the pinch generation on generation and we're going to be seeing ever increasing amounts of immigration due to worsening circumstances in less prosperous countries.

@bessytedsy

What are you thinking you need to pay ££k in NI to get childcare?

Years of employment based contributions would seem to be more likely acceptable to a larger proportion of the population.

You could always run a hybrid of the two. So many years and or so much contributed?

I would hope that the point of the policy is to improve the encouragement to work and the access to work rather than lock ppl out of employment totally.

@Drosera

Managed decline in population seems like the ideal here. But as much of the growth is in other regions with different cultures and no ambition to listen to our views I'm not sure that we have much vote on this. If we made better use of the ppl we had then the economic issue would be reduced.

Moving to a contribution driven access to the social security and health system, would reduce the attraction for unauthorised migration.

Then they will moan about the extra IVF the NHS will need to fund.

I think childcare assistance should be docked from one's pension at the other end. Those who don't need it will get bigger pension payments. Or earlier pension eligibility.

Those who choose to have kids can plan on a more meagre income in old age. Let their own children augment it if need be.

That way childfree people aren't penalized. Everyone gets something.

How nice. Not discriminatory in any way.

@LaurieStrode
Aye that will work wonderfully.
What percentage of people end up stopping work and living off disability benefits long before they get their pension?

But then on the other hand if you're childfree you're more likely to rely on the state for care in your later years, as you haven't created anyone to help care for you.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And all the taxation to provide benefits to reproducers ISN'T discriminatory?

Those who don't take, take, take should enjoy nicer pensions than those who received financial benefits for years and years. It's only fair.

"Reproducers?" What a lovely term.

@Stopthetankerimtryingtosleep

"more likely?"

That's just not true. Childfree people in my circle are actively and aggressively saving in order to pay for any necessary old-age care.

I wouldn't say your circle is representative of the whole population.

Western states aren’t struggling with low birth rates, they’re struggling with supporting overpopulation - as is the planet. We have to take responsibility and not head into producing offspring mindlessly, we are taking more from the planet than we are giving back. Sounds dramatic, but it is really a problem.

@LaurieStrode you took took took when you were a child too. It's what children do.

It shouldn't be seen as you are paying for other people's children it should be seen as you paying forward what other people paid for you.

And as someone without paying for your own children you should be able to seriously boost your own pension pot - children are expensive to keep and feed plus their activities

I think it's fair to say that most childfree people will find it easier to save. I'm on about £45k (fluctuates with overtime etc) and I seem to have way more disposable income than my friends with kids. My partner earns similarly and we share the rent/bills. Always have hundreds left over between us each month.

You're wrong, western states ARE struggling with low birth rates which is resulting in ageing populations.

https://time.com/5291439/west-population-problem-white-nationalists-policies/

https://www.niskanencenter.org/the-global-fertility-collapse/

The dc born today will be working in 20 ish years give or take a few.

What kind of workforce will that be like?

A lot will change in that amount of time