Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

Why do you think the rich people's kiss won't be doing this work? Or are low income folk expected to churn out kids to do the jobs you don't want yours to do?

The costs don’t end after early years education. Most working parents have to pay a few hundred pounds a month for wraparound care, not to mention holiday clubs or childminders in the holidays. And all of a sudden, a huge nursery bill again but IN ADDITION having to pay the above for the older child. While your primary child wants to do hobbies, you have to save up for Christmas and birthdays, family holidays. It’s a privilege tbh if this seems a non issue to you.

@fitzwilliamdarcy women and men now have a real choice to have children. I think that is good.
Even in my generation ( I ma in my fifties) I know too many people who had children because that is what you do when you get married. I can see amongst friends those who really do like having children, and those going through the motions.

Paradoxically both at the bottom of social hierarchy and at the top would have more kids due to the "don't care" attitude. It's the middle class who has to plan when and how.

So none of these people knew about this before deciding to have a baby?

Blimey
You need to change practice.
I worked in London before I had the twins and my salary was £27,000 ( age early 30s ). But I found out they were paying newly qualified males more than me so…..
After having the twins I changed jobs ( regret not taking them to court but as you know it’s a small world and doing that would probably in those days have made my name universal mud )
I Exploited my experience ( slightly niche type buildings with a phd ) and started in a new practice in a senior role, hence the reasonable salary.

Thankfully I was able to take up that role again when I went back to work but lost out on the increased salary I would have had, had I stayed working.

No idea on the current nursery fees but I still disagree with the OP saying the Govn doesn’t support working families ‘anymore’. As they do now, much more than in the past !

Agree. But we are desperate to be parents so we are trying for one. We will do what we can to make it work. I don’t see that we could manage twice though.

Do you not get sick pay? Are you expecting six months off too when it takes over a year to recover from birth? Such is life really! Why does it affect you if she has four consecutive maternity leaves? I would be aiming your irritation at the place you are working for if they are expecting you to do more work to cover for her.

@Youcannotbeseriousreally subsidising early years childcare keeps women in work. Fiscally it makes sense.

@WithACatLikeTread I only get smp along with lots of people. So a lot of people do not get meaningful sick pay.

@Mia45 I’m based in London and a full time place, with waiting lists 12 months long, is £1,500+. House prices have quadrupled, as has rent in the recent years. Wages, exactly the same in most jobs. In my field an ecommerce manager is on £50k, the same salary as it was in 2012 when I started my career, but everything else is more expensive.

You need to think about the cost of childcare and children before you have them not after, tax payers are not responsible for paying for your children.

I am aware of that and it isn't a non issue. Unfortunately there is a real lack of after school clubs in this area. It what stops me working as much as I want and having to claim a top up. At least it is slightly less than a nursery place. I think this is getting more common to have a bigger gap? You speak of holidays and hobbies but you might have to forego that (we very rarely have one) for a bit. Mine has mainly free hobbies etc. I don't see the issue in suggesting it?

Our kids are at school now and the wraparound, holiday care and the clubs they want to do are a lot less than what we paid for the youngest to go to nursery. Plus with babies there were always new clothes and equipment to buy. Is much cheaper once they’re at school, don’t understand those that imply it isn’t. We would never afforded 2 in nursery but 1 in nursery and 1 at school was do-able

Agree entirely (I’m the result of two people who shouldn’t have had kids but did because it’s what you did back then).

I don’t know if this is a large factor in the falling birthrate or not. But what worries me is that we’ve built our society on a baby pyramid scheme, so at some point the govt is going to stop being tolerant of people exercising their right to opt out.

😧😧😧

If you have two the same sex at least you can pass it down etc. Unfortunately I don't! Also don't need to have loads of clothes once they are at school as they are in uniform a lot. I know several with a 4-5 year gap.

That's what I think - also think there will be regional element as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2k9l8vjk8o

Yes or subsidise nursery care as a salary - like they do private healthcare with some firms

Minimum wage is increasing £1.02 in April. My DD used to pay £1800 nursery fees before she got her subsidised hours. She said it made a huge difference to her to get those subsidised hours. She planned her DC so she had a second DC only after the childcare bill was subsidised. If you claim a UC top up as millions do you get some childcare support if working. When you say only £16 a day to survive on did you forget child benefit or don't you get that?

@BlueGrey1 in my personal circumstance, we saved to cover the first few months of nursery, plus to top up my salary as SMP is to low to sustain paying bills. However, when we signed up our son to nursery in August 2023, the monthly fee was £65 per day. Now, it’s increased to £75 per day. Also, everything else has increased (gas, electricity, food, petrol, interest rates), but our wages aren’t increasing that quickly to match the sudden increase in living.

Yes, you should prepare to have children and only do so when you can afford them, but no one expected everything to increase so much, so quickly.

No, I don't receive sick pay other than SSP after a few months, and my condition is going to take a lot longer to recover from than birth. Especially when you consider that folk in other countries are back at work about 6-8 weeks after giving birth. Yes, it is partly my employer that gives much more paid leave for maternity than sick, but that's because the government allows & encourages them to.

Back to addressing the original complaint in the OP - listen to any political speech in an election year and its all about families. Single workers without a partner, especially men, are even worse off than couples, and MPs don't give a toss about what happens to us or where our support comes from, despite us being the engines of the economy and working the anti-social hours that parents refuse.

Given the imbalance I've pointed out above, I don't see why I and others in these categories should be paying even more tax, for parents to receive even more support than they have already.

That’s crazy. Extra £200 per month for a full time place, just from signing up!!

Maybe there was a bit of a golden age in 2012 but in the 1990s it certainly wasn’t easier and I’ve had kids in every decade. Housing costs are a huge issue, anyone living in London on a salary of 50k and trying to raise a child is crazy unless they are in social housing or very low LTV.
We earn not much less outside of London (London supplement would be about 5k I think) but where we live houses/rents are 4 times less. There’s a reason I moved out of London. Full time nursery place at really good quality nursery £1400 pcm here (without TFC) and 12 month waiting list. Things still not easy but certainly much easier than I found them in the 1990s,

@LardyCakeAgain why are single men any worse off than single women?