Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

Is that the same one Theresa May used to buy Northern Irish votes? Pretty sure those millions of taxpayer pounds could have done more for families if they hadn’t been spent on a Tory power grab.

As long as you work.

My DC are in their 40s. We had no extended maternity leave, no free childcare hours, no child tax credits, only child benefit. As PPs have said we had to make difficult decisions about working/ staying at home or even whether we could afford to have children. We waited several years before having children until we could manage financially.
IMO the current provision is good and set to get even better, although preschool provision will need to be improved to meet the demand.

It's clear from many comments on here that lots of people just don't understand the value of good quality childcare.

There's heaps of evidence that the first 3 years of child's life is vital and irretrievable in shaping their personality and their academic and social skills. There's also evidence that good quality early years care vastly increases a child's chances of performing well academically.

We're in a society where most women have to return to work after a year max where even a generation or 2 ago it would have been far more common for women to stay at home for nuch longer. This makes it even more important that babies get what they need at their childcare.

The work that early years specialists do is so so important and if people really appreciated this then they'd put a lot more money and care into it

Things are different now. How long is that going to take to get through to people?

If you are old and well off, are you able to magically pay for young adults to exist at that timeto be your care assistants, doctors and nurses?

Or will these young adults need to have been born as children some 20-40 years previously while you were whinging that people should pay for their own children, while people in their 20s-40s didn't have children because it was too expensive and society didn't help them out?

In other words, are you aware that adults used to be children?

its this ^

long term planning is needed and its not thought through.

the baby boomers were known to be likely to live until they were in the 70s but planning by successive governments wasn't undertaken to plan for this

@MakeEasy that does not happen. The most that happens is women do not work for a few years when children are small.

Children obviously cost a lot hence why parents get more things like child benefit.

What a silly argument. What’s the point of having kids if there’s no future for them? Just let another countries kids have their home opportunities and our kids opportunities too? Or are we all on the take and not investing in our homes/communities/neighbourhoods/futures? There are British babies growing into adults every day and needing the same opportunities you had growing up.

I have two and feel pretty well supported. The 30 free hours a week is a god send and when my second is two I’ll get 15 hours. Making my working more profitable. I have never been entitled to child benefit but glad others are.

There are a lot of employment protections for woman on and post maternity leave.

Yes, I would like free child care or heavily subsidised but I think that kind of money could be better spent elsewhere.

There is support for low income families.

there shouldn't be the high percentage of working families claiming benefits and getting support

working benefits are a curse of this century, which have enabled employers to slash wages for those on low income, they were brought in with the intention of raising families out of poverty - instead the employers have become richer

@ISSTIUTNG you are talking about middle class women who did not have to work. Working class either worked from home, had family childcare for free, or stayed home with under fives as there was zero financial help with childcare.

Last in the queue for social housing.

@LardyCakeAgain. where are you going to import these willing workers from?

freedom of movement was our best chance and we have a higher birth rate than many European countries

As a young parent with a young family, the free childcare hours are good but it's not really a solution.

The fact is, life and especially housing is simply too expensive. If you take into account that on top of expensive childcare outside of the free hours, it's just too costly to have kids.

If you have to remain in work, knowing that you will spend 2 years paying extremely high childcare fees is not remedied by knowing you will eventually get some of that subsidised. The reality is people know they won't make it through those 2 years financially, especially with more than one child, so either people have one child or none, which does not help an aging population.

Last in the queue for social housing.

the queue is several queues, over 55s have a different queue. and its organised on which property you bid and who has most need - if you don't bid you don't get in the queue

In what world is it ok for 2 parents who work full time not to be able to afford childcare.. Even on minimum wage (which we are not) it should be possible for a sustainable population.
I am talking about my experience as without both grandparents helping us we would not have been able to afford a child.
We own a home with a reasonable mortgage and don't spend much on luxuries.. We can't have a second child as we wouldn't be able to afford the full time nursery fees (in Wales) as grandparents won't help again.
This system doesn't work either for childcare workers or parents..the long term future is bleak.
Comparing ourselves to a worse system with less benefits doesn't mean ours is any less shit...we are still one of the worst in the world.
Meanwhile the lady from a foreign country next door in a tiny flat has 5 kids and stays at home all day while the man works. 😂

Isn’t the ‘point’ of childcare to give disadvantaged kids a ‘leg-up’? It’s a blunt tool, but early childcare under 3 is meant to help children from deprived backgrounds isn’t it? Of course those of us who worked would have loved some subsidised care at that age and it was hard at times to see it going to non-working families. But the concept I believe was about nursery to support the kids. Not help working parents.

The fees I quoted were 20 years ago
We didn’t get any free childcare either, or free school meals.
We got nothing.

@Justpontificating

Average salary 20 years ago in 2004 was 22k. Average salary in 2023 (24 data not available yet) was 35k.

www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/

Average childcare cost for FT nursery in 2004 was £7k. In 2023 it was £15k.

amp.theguardian.com/money/2004/feb/07/childcare.childrensservices

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/childcare-costs-uk-tax-gov-account-b2297179.html

So % of salary spent on childcare:
In 2004 = 32%
In 2023 = 43%.

It is most definitely more expensive. Sounds like you were getting badly ripped off to be paying £1k pm in 2004.

It is no longer really marketed that way, the truth is the government know that childcare prices in the UK are extreme and the recent unveiling of universal free childcare hours for 1 year olds and 2 year olds is 100% related to their "get everybody into work" plan. Nothing to do with disadvantages anymore.

The disadvantaged kids angle was specifically in relation to "Time for Twos" which entitled families under a certain income level to claim 15 hours free childcare for 2 year olds before the universal free hours kicked in at age 3, in order to improve statistical outcomes for kids from lower income areas.

What I would like looking at is childcare hours. There’s lots of people not in 9-5 jobs Monday-Friday yet there’s no childcare available out of these hours. Without family to help lots are having to change careers and as such get lower paid jobs or even leave employment

Meanwhile the lady from a foreign country next door in a tiny flat has 5 kids and stays at home all day while the man works.

Well according to many people on this thread we'll need these foreign people. Haven't you been reading? The plan is to allow our children to grow up miserable and uneducated then import these pesky 'people from a foreign country' to be our useful members of society and work for us... the same 'people from a foreign country' who we subject to a constant barage of casual racism, who's lives we scrutinise and judge for no other reason that they come from a different country, the people who we simultaneously criticise for stealing all our jobs and claiming all our benefits at the same time, the people who we gleefully talk about shipping off to Rwanda, the people who we wanted to send such a clear message that we don't want them here that we metaphorically screwed ourselves up the arse to revoke their right to move here and work here..... Seems like a great plan to me....

And what will you do when only the rich can afford to have kids?

No sure that's true - working class communities we grew up in and have lived in a large proportion are near family that can and will help with at least some childcare. It was hard as we had no help at all and schools and NHS services often expect you to have them.

We're seeing similar with older family now - services have more and more gaps that there's an expatiation there's family to fill them. We're some distance away which is hard but nearer family are them left struggle with demands and jobs and in some cases kids.

It's odd as family is more scatter than ever and under greater strain - often needing two jobs - more is expected of them to fill gaps.

I do think there's an argument to saying early years childcare should be seen more as an investment - but even countries with very generous parental packages continue to see birth declines - and house prices will continue to be a huge issue - despite deaths next year predicted to be more than births in UK - our population is still set to increase and house demand is even greater as we get smaller but more households a demand we've failed to fill by building every year for decades.

Childcare is very expensive in the UK because the large chains have moved in and can charge what they want to.

Nail on the head. There should be childcare available for much longer hours in the day AND at weekends for those who don't work 9-5. It massively limits options available for parents.