5 year old school refusal. Please could you advice

[AnxiousAboutSchool]

NC for this.

Hello, DS is winter born, and is one of the oldest kids in reception. He has a lot of anxiety about going to school. He worries about going to school all evening, goes to bed worried, and wakes up worrying about it in the morning. Every morning we have to push him to go to school, and there’s lots of crying and complaining. He has big meltdowns when he’s back from school.

His class teacher says he has lots of friends in school and is quite happy when he is there. DS used to go to a small nurturing nursery before this for 2 years, and it was the same story even then. So it doesn’t seem like the behaviour has much to do with the specific school per say. It seems to be down to separation anxiety. He just wants to stay at home with Mum and Dad. (There’s nothing particularly exciting happening at home - screen time is very limited and he doesn’t play video games or anything)

Is this normal behaviour for a 5 year old? Is this just a phase that some kids go through? I am very upset seeing him like this and wonder if this will be damaging for him in some way. This is already affecting him negatively as he’s very stressed during term time even at home. Once the holidays start he’s much calmer and happier.

A bit of background - DS was a high needs baby and the baby years were super hard. He’s the sweetest little boy, but he’s very “intense” , for lack of a better word. He really gets into the simplest things like maybe a piece of paper he’s playing with. He’s also anxious in general. I have considered neuro divergence, but doesn’t seem like he has any traits except anxiety.

I am considering talking to GP/health visitor, but I don’t think I’ll get much help. Hence turning to experienced parents and teachers on mumsnet for advice.

It absolutely was. I refused school often as a child back in the 90s.

it’s really really fucking insulting to call neurodiverse children fragile btw.

@Bibbidybobbidyroo Burn out... everything got worse and harder.

Was always effort to get her into nursery and it became worse and worse. More screaming my fighting more saying she didn't want to go. Harder to get her ready and out the door. We should have stopped long before we did 😔

She already had problems with clothes but they went off the scale, no longer could wear pants or socks, then no more leggings, then no clothes at all not matter how desperate she was to go with me somewhere. Completely housebound by it for 2/3 weeks then only just able to got out in a dress and shoes.

Food became even more limited, former safe foods were a big no.

She already had a short fuse but this was something else, any tiny thing could set her screaming. Zero tolerance for demands or being a bit uncomfortable.

Sleep got worse again

Even more clingy

A later burn out (4.5 not 3.5) caused by her autism assessment, she lost so much executive function. She couldn't decide what to eat, previously between meals she could help herself to snacks but she'd just stand there and cry because she could decide. She couldn't play because that was too many decisions too.

I was the same in the 70s. ND kids struggling in school and burning out after is nothing new. We’re just better aware now- thankfully!

And yes ND kids are anything but fragile. The amount they carry is immense.

Does he get to school when most are already there? Mind improved when he was one of the first rather than walking into the hustle and noise.

Also having a relaxed morning making sure everything was ready the night before.

What was the situation for him during Covid? He would have been between 1-2 for the lockdowns presumably, was he home with a parent the whole time? Many teacher friends have said the difference in the current infant cohort is quite marked compared to the older years.

I think there have always been some kids like this but we couldn't talk about it so we'll because we didn't have the networks we do now.

I know not everyone had this luxury but more people could run a home on one income and kids could stay home longer in some cases and maybe that help? I wonder what it would be like for DD to start school at 5 without the trauma she has now, maybe it would be easier if we had starred when she was old enough to express her needs and discomforts.

I saw someone mention that it seems like more ND people are able to clump together with ND people now so maybe more likely to have ND children? DP and I both are and we can see traits of us both in our kids but it's only DD and maybe DN (both her parents look could be ND) who have traits strong and disruptive enough actually have to look at for a reason/diagnosis. I got diagnosed at 27, DP realised he likely could at 30 while we got DD assessed at 4, other than that there's only one other person diagnosed in both our families and he had GDD so very obvious .

@AnxiousAboutSchool OP just so you’re aware - by all means see your GP to get numbers for counselling etc, but if you’re wanting to go down the route of ASD/ADHD assessment, there is nothing the GP can do without a supporting report from school. You will simply be advised to get a report from school and make another appointment.

DS was very similar, except that he’s summer born. All of Reception was difficult, and not helped by lockdowns. Then in Y1 he got into a routine, made some friends, figured out he’s acting pretty good at school, and now in Y3 loves it. I think he thrives on routine, rules, knowing what to expect. I do think he has some autism traits as well, though we have not pursued a diagnosis.

WhT helped, other than just time, was a strict routine, no giving in to school refusal, and understanding what he needs to cope. Eg, in Reception and Year 1 we’d bring him home, put food on the table and leave him alone for 15-20 minutes. He needed food and peace and quiet, not parents asking how his day was and his little sister pestering him to play.

Please do NOT ask the teacher if you can drop him off half an hour early!!!!

Same with my DD who is 7, major separation anxiety, she feels sick, sometimes vomits, cries, begs not to go. Once she's at school they tell me she's fine but she tells me she feels sick all day. I've had the emotional well being team, one point, counsellors, emotional school nurse and nothing works

I can only remember one child crying and refusing to come in when I was st primary school on the 70s and they weren't pandered to.
It is definitely a fact that for whatever reason kids are much less resilient and more anxious than they were a generation ago.i think we are dealing with first generation of parents to have been brought up by nurseries, becoming parents themselves and not having a scoobie! So many try to shield their young dc from experiencing the full range or human emotion in particular negative feelings such as disappointment, boredom, frustration etc they are not prepared for life.

My son was like this. He’s very popular and went to a great school but even in year 5, he was anxious about going back to school after a break (half-term, holidays…) We would walk to school with his bottom lip wobbling but it had to be done.

He was fine by late year 5 when he was allowed to walk home with friends but he often cried going in during Reception.

He was later diagnosed with ADHD.

I see a few people have mentioned sensory processing sensitivity and it is worth considering. There is a growing clinical consensus to consider ‘HSP’ to be a form of neurodivergence.

there is nothing the GP can do without a supporting report from school.

This very much depends on the area the OP lives in.

Try your senco and also school nurse.

dd is now 16 and has just received an autism diagnosis.
She was like this at nursery and reception/year 1.

It was mostly transition anxiety. Better in nursery and reception because at the time we walked her in, helped her hang up coat and then choose an activity before we left.
Second half of reception and year 1, she had to line up in the playground and every day she had a melt down Once in school she was 'fine.'
We often had melt downs at home before she left, over random things like the wrong socks. At those moments she needed me to stop getting ready for school and just give her a hug until she was ready to continue.
Things that helped

1. transition objects, we took her teddy up to school and then he came home in my pocket. She took small items in to school in her pockets. I have heard of kids taking a small paper heart in, to remind them mummy is with them through the day, just hidden in their pocket
2. She didn't line up. I handed her over at the door to the TA who sometimes had a great deal of trouble getting her in the door, but within 10 minutes she was 'fine'

Looking back, I realise that she struggled in the small noisy classroom of year 1 compared to the more open calmer space of early years. She also struggled with the transition through the door, and if I could have walked her in, helped her hang her coat and walked her into the classroom, she would have been 100% better, but she was not recognised as being ND at all, so no accommodations. She was also struggling with friendships in school, which unfolded through the years as really poor social skills, but again, not obviously ND, in fact bright, able and articulate, so no reason for her not to have friends right?

We did not realise how much she masked in school unitl many years later, but school was (and is) a massive act for her, she literally puts on her school face, and she is exhausted by doing it.

I wish I had noticed all this early, and intervened early, and pushed the school for accommodation early, especially things which we easy like walking her in.

Wow. Come back to us when you’ve spent an hour trying to negotiate with a screaming secondary school kid who is too anxious to go to school and then have an opinion! He’s not being silly, he’s being frightened and for whatever reason he feels unable to cope.

OP seek all the help now! I find it goes up and down now, good week, copeable weeks and absolutely horrific weeks. But keep trying as best you can. I know it’s absolutely heartbreaking though

someone described transition anxiety like this:

You have to jump over a gap. Like a huge crevasse in the ground in front of you. Can't see the bottom, really dangerous if you fall in.
Mum and home are on this side of the gap. School is on the other side.

You know that the gap is thin, and that you can step over it in one step. You know that yesterday you stepped over it, and the day before and the day before that.
But that doesn't stop the fear that today you have to step over that dangerous scary gap yet again.
Every day the gap is just as scary, and every day you have to cross it.

Once over it, you will be OK. But you have to get over that gap.

I have considered neuro divergence, but doesn’t seem like he has any traits except anxiety.

If you dig deeper, you’ll probably find that there’s much more to it than anxiety and there are more ND traits than you first think. The thing is, there’s a lot more to neurodivergence than most of us realise, and most of us understand very little about (for example) autistic traits until we are thrust into that world. So don’t be too tempted to say “he doesn’t seem like he has any traits” just because he isn’t lining up toys and flapping his hands.

First of all, you mention he was a high needs baby and he’s really intense. That’s a bit of a red flag.

Back to the anxiety and school/nursery environments and why they cause such anxiety. He might be struggling with:

The social demands of playing, talking and generally interacting with peers
The fear of having to talk to adults that he doesn’t have an attachment to
The sensory environment - Reception classes are full on: bright, loud, busy, unpredictable
Getting to grips with the school day: transitioning from classroom to assembly to the playground to lunchtime etc
He might hate the playground and spent his time alone
He might be afraid of using the toilets which can be smelly and not left in the nicest condition

Neurotypical kids seem to take all this in their stride. But autistic kids find it almost intolerable.

“Highly sensitive person” was never a thing anyway. Just a term coined by one woman, using her nephews as case studies. Her nephews ended up - surprise surprise - being diagnosed with autism.

But the damage was already done and “highly sensitive” was adopted wholesale by those who think it sounds better, nicer and less stigmatising than the big bad A word.

Yeah we went through "orchid child" to HSP to autistic.

I know other adults who feel HSP fits them but they have an awful lot in common with DD

Yes, I know. I was putting it gently for the pp who have said some variation of 'my DC isn't neurodivergent, but...'.

ilovebreadsauce

What a load of absolute bilge.

Your memories of one school does not an informed summary make.

Re your reference to “ pandering”. Dragging me in had life long consequences and lead to masking. I dragged my ASC dc in and it lead to masking and very ill teenagers.

hahahahahahahaha
and what happened to those 'resilient' kids when they became adults? they struggled and then were diagnosed later and their school life was a lot harder for them than it needed to be.

not to worry about people missing out on experiencing feelings such as disappointment, boredom, frustration - your post gave me my daily dose, thanks!