To think that kids being great readers isn't so much better than being gamers?

[Utterbunkum]

I write this as a prolific reader. It was the family joke that I could be found with a book at all times. I loved reading, it was my greatest pleasure. I read from a young age.

But I wasn't a clever child. In every other respect, I was average, apart from maths, at which I was an unmitigated dunce (still am). This was later diagnosed as dyscalculia, unheard of in my childhood. A bit of a digression, but I think my maths teacher at secondary school, who was also the dyslexia assessor, knew something was off. He offended my mum once by asking her how I did in English and being surprised when she told him, 'very well, it's her best subject'.

To cut a long story short, my only skill (reading quickly and easily) has been of very little practical use. I got a degree in Eng Lit as a mature student, which did little to get me out of the minimum wage earning potential.

I find it interesting the importance people place on reading as an activity over gaming. My reading was just as antisocial (more so, since you can't chat with your mates whilst doing it) and the young gamers I know seem to be far more analytical and have higher earning potential than I ever did. My husband barely picked up a book. He is an IT whizz with a very high IQ. My nephew is not dissimilar.

I still love reading. And I do think kids who don't are missing out, but I suspect that's because my life has been so enhanced by it from an enjoyment perspective. But kids who game probably feel the same. I don't think reading is quite the superior form of entertainment some think it is.

Yep, and centuries ago people used to write rants about how their child would read too much and it was reslly bad for them!

People especially used to believe that novels corrupted young girls.

Being a gamer is very different to creating IT content.

In this context I'd say its not about reading as entertainment but as a source of knowledge.

I am undoubtedly biased, but DS1 (8) read early and easily, and because he has applied this to a wide range of books, many non-fiction, his general knowledge is very good for his age.

I was also an avid reader as a child and this aptitude did lead into my future career, but it was more of a symptom than a cause!

I think overall, reading is generally considered good to support vocabulary building and general knowledge. Certainly, I believe that reading widely helps to teach children about a world that exists beyond the confines of their own small world.

Having said that, I totally agree. if MN had been around 40 years ago, my mum would have been on here posting, "Is 2 hours reading time a day too much? How do I get DD to do more activities and play outside more?" It was a source of never ending frustration for my parents that I would almost ALWAYS choose to read over doing other things - from socialising to exercising to school work.

I also agree that reading does not necessarily translate into other skills. I am not lazy and in fact have a good career that I'm good at and enjoy, but I'm also conscious that I probably could have gone further/done more... but I didn't want to. I'd far rather sit on the train during my commute reading than working/checking email/ reading work-related news sits.

You're comparing apples and pears.
Reading develops many skills - vocabulary, language, expression, imagination. But gaming can do as well - fine motor skills, strategy, spacial awareness.
I think you have a point though that reading is generally better thought of as a more 'intellectual' pursuit. Does rather depend on what you read though!

As a lonely autistic 80s teenager I would have killed for today's gaming and the internet. It might have stopped me getting into so much trouble through boredom and lack of direction.

From an educational point of view, being a competent reader - able to read relatively quickly and comprehend accurately, having access to a firstly wide vocab - must make accessing the non-English parts of the curriculum so much easier. My son's secondary invests a lot of time on reading as an investment in GCSEs and A levels - not just in being able to do the exams but in being able to do the reading required to access the curriculum for most subjects.

But then I think reading isn't just about entertainment, it can be about being able to engage with more complex ideas and arguments, be able to challenge your own perspectives by being exposed to different ideas and worldviews, and overall be open to and able to consume more long form and complex content. I feel like these are quite fragile skills - I know in recent years I've spent less and less time reading books, long articles etc and I've made a conscious decision this year to increase my long-form reading.

I've often thought this. As I just said on another thread, I hid in my bedroom (to read) for my entire teenage years, because my tv time was strictly limited to 30 minutes and I wasn't allowed any kind of gaming console. God forbid. So I read books. But it's not like I was reading Tolstoy, or teaching myself Sanskrit. I was reading pony stories, school stories, fantasy and discworld etc., and I don't really see how allowing computer games to an introverted teen is going to rot her brain by comparison.

One SHOULD teach a teen have the mental reserves and concentration to be able to pick up a fun book and read it cover to cover, but I don't think my countless hours reading school stories were inherently more virtuously spent than a teen playing Elden Ring today. We don't all need to learn to write glittering prose, and the kind of books I was reading back then certainly didn't teach it!

What would be more virtuous, I suppose, is a healthy mix of activities - reading, gaming, physical exercise, music, art/craft.

Also my teen DD reads ACOTAR, and I'm QUITE sure there's little virtue in that! 😳

I agree with you OP.
Reading is a basic skill but beyond that being a ‘prolific’ reader can be seen as a snobbery thing. It’s part and parcel of our ‘school-centric’ system.
Gaming can be an incredible learning tool. What my DC have learnt by playing Minecraft is incredible.

@Iwishiwasasilentnight oh, absolutely, I understand that, but what gaming does seem to do is enhance analytical skills. My husband wasn't a gamer (born too soon, as was I), but it seems to be that gamers in the modern world are more likely to be proficient in that area than those who lean far more towards reading.

Lots of kids who game are also interested in creating their own games, and they learn to edit videos because they want to post gaming vids online.

I'd sure as hell prefer to have a natural born gamer than a natural born reader pilot a plane I was on.

I think reading is just the key foundation for learning anything and everything else - you can learn anything if you can read, generally. However, you're right, OP, it can have a downside. If you're a person who wants to withdraw from the world, reading will facilitate that but won't be seen as a problem because it's so good for you in so many ways, enabling people to fob off and ignore wider issues in their lives. Gaming can do the same thing.

Personally, I think everything in moderation. I was a voracious reader as a child and managed to develop a very unpleasant and superior manner because I thought I was the business with all the sophisticated (and unsuitable, at times) things I had read (but often not really understood). I should have been encouraged to engage with the world more widely. Similarly, there'll be kids with fantastic thumb strength who know their way around a maze brilliantly but maybe should do other things too...

I don't even know if that all makes any sense.

Similar story here @Utterbunkum I agree up to a point that any obsession can get out of hand and be used to ignore harder stuff, but ideally, you want them to both read and game as it’s important socially now. I totally agree that there’s a lot of passive content consumption in gaming (as in reading).

I think different skills.

There is a lot of predjudice against gaming from older generations who don't do it, but it can be very educational. Stuff like Minecraft is very creative and a lot of gaming involves problem solving skills and teamwork.

Kids are increasingly going to be creating and working in digital environments in the future, so neglecting gaming as a way of familiarising them with those environments is bad news. I think the right way to approach it is to encourage them in games that actually involve thinking and learning and creating and not just blasting aliens.

Reading is something essential to have, whether you are reading for the pleasure of it or reading to understand and learn information, so it needs to be encouraged, but not to the exclusion of other activities like sports and gaming.

I’m not sure I agree about analysis' - it does depend what type of reading you’re doing, plenty of analytical thinking in fact based books.

I think the point is that some people think pears (reading) are inherently superior to apples (gaming) always and forever and in every way. There is a lot more to it than that (as you know).

To be fair, we have no idea what the future holds. Blasting aliens might turn out to be a skill that saves humanity!

I totally agree. I read voraciously as a child. My parents were very smug about this and I did develop some general knowledge but, as I mainly read things like the Trebizon stories on repeat, it is more limited than you'd expect. In retrospect, with limited social skills (going through diagnosis process now), I did this as it was safe. I basically hid in books. I listen to DS gaming and think he is developing good negotiation & teamwork skills with his friends as well as chatting to them about life in general. Yes, he might not want to come off his devices but nor did I want to put down my book, and I might have read it a dozen times before.
I also think reading left me with some unrealistic expectations. Books are wrapped up in 300 pages or so, life is not! How a character behaves in a book and how people respond to that behaviour is controlled by the author. Life is much more varied than that!

The evidence from research is reading proficiency is a key component of both education and career success.

Gaming - very different to programming or coding - is very poor for developing problem solving or analytical skills as most games are written with finite options - many are seek and find for example - whereas real life involves problems of much greater complexity and problems that can't be solved requiring a total rethink.

Reading is known to increase emotional intelligence which is very helpful for future success, being able to understand and relate to a wide range of people is very valuable in modern society. Gaming has a first-person bias and is thought to negatively impact empathy in some people.

I'd favour reading any day.

I would add that my parents certainly didn't regard my reading as any sign of intellectual superiority at the time, gaming didn't exist anyway, then, like it does now. It certainly didn't translate into my being great at school or anything.

Mine is a code writing whizz but has always had a huge love of reading. Being great at games is very different from writing code and many, many people love playing games but have absolutely no interest in all the coding that lies behind it.

For me there is no comparison between being a keen reader as a child and spending all day playing crossy road on an ipad.

What's wrong with ACOTAR?! 😆just started the first book!

But how much worse would you have done at school without the reading?

We each only get one life, so can't judge anything from our own life as there is no control to compare against.

But the data around reading is very robust - reading helps a lot. Gaming just doesn't do what reading does.

I was a massive reader and have a DS who reads a bit/games a lot. His vocabulary is off the charts to the point that his teachers tell me that it occasionally causes him problems being understood at school because other kids don't know the words he uses or the concepts that go with them. He gets As in English and has read at a high adult level since he was seven. He just rarely reads for fun. His general knowledge is insane. He recently spent a lot of time researching the relationship between adrenaline, dopamine and addiction. The legal ramifications of Steamboat Willie becoming public domain. The damage TikTok does to mental health. The dangers and benefits of AI. The stages of grief. He gives brilliant, insightful reviews of movies.

I wish he'd read more. Because I took such joy from reading. But that's a me issue, tbh. Not something he especially needs to do.