To think that kids being great readers isn't so much better than being gamers?

[Utterbunkum]

I write this as a prolific reader. It was the family joke that I could be found with a book at all times. I loved reading, it was my greatest pleasure. I read from a young age.

But I wasn't a clever child. In every other respect, I was average, apart from maths, at which I was an unmitigated dunce (still am). This was later diagnosed as dyscalculia, unheard of in my childhood. A bit of a digression, but I think my maths teacher at secondary school, who was also the dyslexia assessor, knew something was off. He offended my mum once by asking her how I did in English and being surprised when she told him, 'very well, it's her best subject'.

To cut a long story short, my only skill (reading quickly and easily) has been of very little practical use. I got a degree in Eng Lit as a mature student, which did little to get me out of the minimum wage earning potential.

I find it interesting the importance people place on reading as an activity over gaming. My reading was just as antisocial (more so, since you can't chat with your mates whilst doing it) and the young gamers I know seem to be far more analytical and have higher earning potential than I ever did. My husband barely picked up a book. He is an IT whizz with a very high IQ. My nephew is not dissimilar.

I still love reading. And I do think kids who don't are missing out, but I suspect that's because my life has been so enhanced by it from an enjoyment perspective. But kids who game probably feel the same. I don't think reading is quite the superior form of entertainment some think it is.

The world needs both.

But there will always be those who sneer at what they perceive as less intellectual or lower class pursuits.

I can make slime with my kids, and talk about measurements, materials, reactions, etc. I can play Monopoly with them, and talk about value for money, borrowing and repaying, budgeting etc. I'm sure some of the people dragging their kids round a museum might think they're better educating their kids than I am, but the truth is that opportunities for education are everywhere and not just in the pursuits that Jacob Rees-Mogg would approve of.

(Go forth and game!)

I suspect gaming will have a different sort of effect on dopamine pathways to reading.

IMO reading for pleasure will very likely enhance English language skills, help to increase their vocabulary and to absorb (painlessly!) good grammar and spelling.

Depends on what you read surely? If you’re sat there whizzing through encyclopaedia after encyclopaedia and retaining all that knowledge I’d say it was completely different to gaming. If you’re sat there reading fantasy or crime or other fiction then no, it’s no better than gaming.

I'm not saying gaming has no value - I think it does refine skills in things like problem solving, reaction times and technology obviously. But reading definitely has different and distinct values that can't be easily replaced or refined by other means.

My kids are both bright and avid gamers, much less interested in reading especially the eldest. I was a real bookworm. My spelling, vocabulary and grammar are all excellent. <Waits for someone to point out multiple errors in my post!> My children are weak at v those skills in comparison. My eldest is now at uni and has struggled to get the hang of writing essays. He does sometimes ask me to proofread and I do end up amending sentence structures etc.

Youngest is being tutored for the 11+. Tutor says she's definitely bright enough but her spelling and vocabulary are below par and "she needs to read more".

It seems a shame as they'd both have those extra strings to their bows if they had got into the swing of reading for pleasure. I did try and encourage them but Minecraft was always more interesting!

I read absolutely voraciously as a child and teen. I also gamed extensively as a teen.

My view is that it depends so much on the game - if I sit on my iPad playing a match 3 style game is that equivalent to reading a good book? Absolutely not. However, there are games which have as good stories as books and which require good problem solving abilities. Similarly, there’s reading Tolstoy and there’s reading mills & boon. So I think both have their place - and it’s fine to do things just because they are fun, not everything has to be improving.

I genuinely love both, but the cognitive effect of reading is quite different. No need to pit them against each other, but if you could only do one, I'd pick reading, for both me and kid.

There's different games as others have said. My son spending hours shooting critters on Super Animal Royale isn't the same experience as us playing Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom together, with him doing the reading, or exploring planets on No Man's Sky.

I believe in games as art. Some of my favourite games are up there with some of my favourite books for storytelling. I am amazed at some of the beautiful things my son builds and some of the logical puzzles he can solve on video games - he's much better than me at that and he's only nine.

I think the social aspect is oversold. Sure if they're playing together in person, but when a lot of people say that they mean online, and I'm not going to let my son have access to games with open text chat or voice chat till he's pretty much old enough to go out and see his friends anyway. It's as dangerous as having them on social media - worse in some ways.

You sound like me! I’ve always been a bookworm, good at English, have a wide vocabulary and am a proficient proofreader but useless at maths and probably have dyscalculia as I get numbers mixed up etc.
i don’t think gaming per se is better than reading. It may be social and fun, prob good for hand/eye coordination (another thing I lack!), but reading gives you insight into other worlds, a great deal of general knowledge and is also a great pastime.
I am v social and never read instead of going out etc! I’ve also gamed and enjoyed it too (more in my 20s than now, I leave it to the kids these days).

@MorningSunshineSparkles I think that's an important point l should have made clearer. It's the blanket belief that reading trumps gaming no matter what. As a pp mentioned upthread, there wasn't really anything much better about her in her room reading pony stories than if she had been a gamer, yet, regardless of CONTENT, it would still have been viewed as 'better'.
It depends on a lot of other factors, which aren't always taken into consideration when indicating that children should read rather than game in the generic terms I often see this stipulation being made.
Reading in and of itself is really not an indicator of exam success. There's a lot more to it than that, and favouring gaming over reading for no other reason than it's just 'better' doesn't get to the nub of the 'why' of it.

My autistic dc finds reading abit boring, he is good at it, has a wide vocabulary etc so I'm not concerned.
However, he absolutely loves gaming, it is his passion, and calms his mind & helps him get out any frustrations. Due to this he is great at problem solving, analysing, tactical play, building, creating etc. He goes into the finer details of the games. Acouple of his games are on the laptop so he types, has become a great typer as well as practising more complex spellings than he learns in school.
Some of his friends who are banned from screens struggle with the computer lesson at school, can't find letters/numbers on the keyboard etc.
Technology is part of the world we live in, and I think it is important children have at least some access to this. Dc is 7, and I think destined to become a game designer!

So what are we really saying here? That if you are exclusively reading badly written repetitive pony stories, that’s as much of an issue as if you’re logging onto Roblox and playing someone’s shooting / dress up dolly type games?

not that controversial I’d have thought!

I find it interesting the importance people place on reading as an activity over gaming.

Moderation with everything is probably key - but yes I do think there can be over emphasis on reading.

DD1 not a reader - always suspect dyslexia but never got anywhere - huge vocabulary according teachers. DH and I have good vocabulary and use it round our kids - we listen to radio, pod casts, you tube, tv - audio books, films and games - life in fact.

I suspect content is more important than medium in most cases.

You tube for us is actually fairly positive - professionals in niche areas finding things out and leaning from experience and others with experience to create things. Sometime gaming sparks interest in architecture or historical events. Educational apps have been useful as well - they can be variable but DD2 is enjoying some language ones at minute.

The skill you have is that you are literate. Literacy is a fundamental skill that is the bedrock for so much. Your husband will also be literate regardless of him not reading. Education in reading is to build literacy skills. Children who are not literate struggle.
I read huge amounts and studied English Lit. Am I more intelligent than someone who doesn’t read as much? Of course not. But there is a big difference in being literate and not reading than not having the ability to read or read well. This is why early literacy is so important. Without being literate you won’t have the choice.

It is. It works your brain harder, and has fewer negative side effects. Also, piss off with the genre snobbery!

I agree with you to a point OP. One of my DC studied English Lit, got a first, but beyond their own enjoyment and a career in teaching (which wasn't for them). What use is it?
In the end they did a conversion masters into IT and now make a very decent salary as a software engineer. It's not their passion, but a fantastic knowledge of myth and legend doesn't pay bills.
Another DC never picked up a book in his life (beyond the beginners guide to python), parents evenings were always fraught as he just wasn't interested in English at all. His teacher kept telling him he would struggle to get a good job. He also went into software engineering and I suspect he is now earning double his teachers salary. He is 22.
I read, but I find the internet far more entertaining.

A lot of people here failing to realise that what is being got at here isn't that Gaming teaches kids coding and IT skills.

Gaming is the gateway to an interest in coding and computer hardware. PC gaming isn't just "Stick CD in and turn into zombie". Consoles open up the world of PC gaming which is much better from a technical aspect. For some games, especially the newer ones, you need high spec PC hardware builds (so kids research and learn about computer tech and hardware) and take some level of general IT knowledge to make changes, install drivers etc on the system itself.

Then there is graphic design and implementing that content into games. Some of the visuals alone are enough to inspire children into the arts SEPARATELY to IT based roles in graphic design and art creation for games. The amount of coding that goes into not only that, but coding a whole video game into a cinematic masterpiece would likely blow your mind.

THEN there are the beautifully crafted storylines. Mysteries, crime, drama, romance, grief, loss, fantasy, absolutely unbelievable creative writing opportunity for children inspired by them, all backed up with stunning cinematics and a cast and crew of voice and physical actors (mocap etc). I would rather my children immerse themselves in most of the stories told in video games than watch Sharon dive senselessly into another shitty affair because soap writers want desperately to to normalize extremely toxic ideals such as incest and affairs (not that this isn't shown in video games and there are problematic themes, they are generally just written much better than scummy soap storylines are). And you aren't just sitting there melting your brain. You are controlling the character and thinking things through even in the most basic of games. some of them have extremely complex puzzles, mathematics, require critical thinking and problem solving. It's not all violent GTA (and Red Dead Redemption - which actually have extremely well written stories behind them) or "mindless" Minecraft (who have a WHOLE educational package). There are millions of games out there that are educational that Mumsnetters know nothing about through pure ignorance because they want to keep crying about "video game bad".

HUGE swathes of the people I work with in IT, Software development, coding jobs from the bottom right up to management are "Gamers" and got into their jobs because of their "mindless gaming" while their parents screeched about how amazing the high brown storytelling in Eastenders and Jeremy Kyle was. They are also paid more than our nurses and even some of our Doctors, and that's at entry level.

Go figure.

Reading is said to have health benefits such as lowering heart rate and be generally a calming activity.

@PSEnny this isn't about literacy at the basic level of being able to read. Nobody, certainly not me, denies the importance of that. This is about the generic notion that reading automatically trumps gaming as a pastime for kids, not the notion that gaming trumps illiteracy.

Surely it depends on what you read and how you read it?

If you're just "reading the words" and not really thinking about the plots, themes, characteristics, not researching the meanings of things you don't understand, then it is pretty pointless, especially if it's "mass produced" generic novels, like Mills & Boon or even some popular authors, where "reading a book" is little more than something to do to avoid boredom.

But if you're reading "properly", i.e. really buying into the book, checking for words you don't know, researching places/people featured in the book, reading a wide range of different genres, different authors, etc., identifying characteristics, comparing different characters, then it is a really enriching activity, especially if the book is descriptive of historic people, places, visions of the future, etc.

But even with the likes of Mills & Boon crap, there's still a "value" in very simple terms such as broadening your vocabulary, learning spellings and grammar, etc just by reading, it's bound to sink in and you can then benefit by using better English skills in everyday life.

I also think gaming is similar, i.e. it's what and how you "game" that determines whether it enriches you or not. Some games really give you new skills, not only physical with spatial awareness etc., but also mental, especially when there are tactics to employ to "pass" each level, move to new levels, etc., or where you have to "do tasks" to earn points etc. A basic shoot to kill war game is probably pretty limited as to learn skills, but there are lots of games where you really have to use strategy, i.e. the much maligned Farming Simulator where you have to plant crops, harvest them and transport them to earn money which you need to buy new seeds, new tractors, new fields, etc - it is more akin to a business simulation game and can actually teach business/finance. Compare something potentially useful like that to, say, Pacman where you just have to try to avoid being eaten - the "skills" you learn are so different. Likewise with building games like Minecraft which are incredibly educational.

My nephew is an absolute sponge for information. Will tell you the history of a particular jet engine on a type of plane, or will tell you about all sorts of military history. Some of it will have been picked up from some books, but most of it is picked up off the random things he watches on You Tube. If he's not watching that, he's gaming with his mates. He does occasionally read a book, but not too often.

When I was his age, we lived in the middle of nowhere and I had no friends nearby and was an only child. We didn't have a car, and public transport was practically non-existent, so the only socialising I did was at school. I had a computer to play games, but this was pre-internet, so it was just me playing on my own. Other than that I read books. As OP says, it was a very isolating existence really.

When I compare to my nephew, his general knowledge outside of school work is so much greater than mine was and his social skills are better than mine were at that age. He's much more confident in talking to people and putting his arguments across in a discussion. Even his own mum has said she wishes she had been half as confident as he is when she was his age.

I don't think gaming is anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Sure you've got to be careful what they're playing and who they're talking to, and making sure they are engaging in the real world, but there are huge benefits to this new wider open world for kids.

World Book Day: The mental health benefits of reading (bacp.co.uk)

I completely agree @Utterbunkum .

I learnt to read from a very early age and did well at school because of it I guess however, in my teen years, I was devouring books nightly ….at age 12/13 until 2am, then being knackered all day because of it!

I think at GCSE level, Shakespeare has ruined a love of reading for many kids.
I don’t believe Shakespeare needs teaching to kids except for if they choose English Literature in 6th form. I think at GCSE level, only an English language paper needs to be taught and have English Lit as an additional subject you can choose if you want, like you do for French, history etc.

Once you can read, unless you want to read for pleasure, like any other hobby, it’s a choice. At a certain point in my life, I would have a handful of books on the go but not actually read past chapter 1 of any of them - my brain needed something else (Netflix) more visual for a quick fix than slogging my way through a book.

Currently I’m writing my first novel (slowly) because I want to share my writing and ideas creatively and I’m really glad to be back in a world of books again.

Its all relative.
Gaming can be brilliant for so many young people and adults. My autisic son uses gaming to relax learn and design. My older parents love to use YouTube to learn stuff and love the ease of the internet.

Nothing has to be set in stone. Don’t worry that people think you have to read!

@BitchBrigade thank you. That's sort of what I was getting at, although even I would say there is a difference between reading and watching Jeremy Kyle.
My point is that you do find more prolific gamers in the fields you have referenced than you find prolific readers, so reading (depending on factors, as others have mentioned, such as what you are reading) isn't necessarily automatically 'better than'.
What I am getting at is that there's a blanket view of this that I am not convinced is accurate.

Not that long ago, the novel was seen as an immoral art form. I love reading, very similar to you, have an Eng Lit Degree. But I don't think it's particularly edifying. Just fun.

Reading has always been my passion, as has language and English. So much so, that i decided from a very early age that writing was my future career.

And hence why I became an editor and journalist on a trade magazine, then moved onto copywriting. Reading prolifically as a child helped me hugely with a means to escape, build vocabulary and expand my knowledge.

I'm pretty sure that I also have the dyslexic equivalent of maths (sorry, I can't remember its name). I think if I'd had Bern good at maths, it coulf possibly have opened doors to a more financially rewarding career or job. After a head injury and post concussion syndrome 9.years ago, i lost my ability to see in my mind's eye, and during my acute recovery period after the initial injury, I have aphasia for a while, which was extremely difficult to work with. As you can imagine, not being able to read or write properly when trying to make a living as a writer is pretty devastating and scary.

I have regained my ability to read, thank goodness, but haven't been able to use my mind's eye ever since the accident. I've just about come to terms with it in some ways, but the loss of my imagination while I read isn't something I'll ever truly be at peace with. I miss it. 😢