To think that kids being great readers isn't so much better than being gamers?

[Utterbunkum]

I write this as a prolific reader. It was the family joke that I could be found with a book at all times. I loved reading, it was my greatest pleasure. I read from a young age.

But I wasn't a clever child. In every other respect, I was average, apart from maths, at which I was an unmitigated dunce (still am). This was later diagnosed as dyscalculia, unheard of in my childhood. A bit of a digression, but I think my maths teacher at secondary school, who was also the dyslexia assessor, knew something was off. He offended my mum once by asking her how I did in English and being surprised when she told him, 'very well, it's her best subject'.

To cut a long story short, my only skill (reading quickly and easily) has been of very little practical use. I got a degree in Eng Lit as a mature student, which did little to get me out of the minimum wage earning potential.

I find it interesting the importance people place on reading as an activity over gaming. My reading was just as antisocial (more so, since you can't chat with your mates whilst doing it) and the young gamers I know seem to be far more analytical and have higher earning potential than I ever did. My husband barely picked up a book. He is an IT whizz with a very high IQ. My nephew is not dissimilar.

I still love reading. And I do think kids who don't are missing out, but I suspect that's because my life has been so enhanced by it from an enjoyment perspective. But kids who game probably feel the same. I don't think reading is quite the superior form of entertainment some think it is.

I agree. Not sure what being a voracious reader brings you. I've read a bit, eggs more in life does that bring me? More than other things? I think not.

Dh dislikes the fact that ds2 loves gaming, but he also does ok at school, plays in a football team, and is quite a happy chap. So what's the problem. What is it? We're all striving for here? To be happy and successful, what's your definition of success?

I‘m a gamer myself, as is my partner, so I understand what it entails and I’m no snob about it. But gaming and reading are vastly different things, and yes, reading IS a superior pursuit in terms of development and emotional maturity.

Gaming is largely passive - it’s repetitive, you’re channelled through a series of very tight narratives which are predetermined, and all the visuals and characterisation and voices are laid out before you. You receive it, you are not a part of creating it. The language and scripting is almost universally formulaic and poor (even in the best and most lauded games) compared to most decent novels, and the universe (even in the largest open world games) is small and constricted and one-note.

Novels and other forms of literature are the opposite of passive: they engage with you and communicate with you but asking you to engage your imagination, to create in your own head in your own way the universe that the writer has created in theirs. It requires understanding and empathy as characters evolve and grow. It provokes a vast range of all human emotions in a way that no game truly can.

Non-fiction can provide much deeper dives into human lives, knowledge, language and the human condition which can’t help but improve and inform our own. Anyone who avidly reads is almost by definition a different person, who conducts themselves differently and sees things different to the person they would have been if they had never read.

They are FUNDAMENTALLY different things, reading and gaming. I enjoy both, and there is room for both in an enjoyable life, but I only exalt one of them, because only one of them is deserving of it.

I strongly believe dc need a mix of activities and gaming / reading both offer escapism which is important. Academically, reading is essential but life isn’t all about being academic. Am obsession with gaming, or anything that prevents a dc engaging with every day life is an issue. My dc use a ps4 but can put it down no issue if I ask them to help when the shop gets delivered (for example). It’s also something they do with dh or together so rarely a solo activity in our house.

@LightSwerve l take your point, but gaming is a gateway and certainly requires more problem solving skills than reading fiction does. Whilst it doesn't always translate and, as with books, it depends on the game, I would still consider it offers more than reading unless the child is honestly reading more factual content or high-level vocabulary.

OP, your posts are very well written, concise and informative. Excellent grammar and legibility, a great communication skill. I wonder where that came from?

Gaming has been shown to use few problem-solving skills, unlike say woodwork or craft or coding, and there is evidence it actually reduces problem-solving resilience because games are designed to be solved - life is not like that.

You may consider gaming to offer more, but the evidence just isn't there.

Reading is truly amazing.

I am 50

Ism a huge reader, when young and now, at least 50 books a year now, thought iota all light weight stuff -crime or jilly Cooper

It stands me in great stead doing a second degree (law) and professional exams -as I can read the textbooks and articles pretty quickly, so happy to do lots of wider reading.

I am also a huge gamer. What's that if not interactive stories! (Well the games I play) most games have a ton of reading in them -notes or conversations -so handy to skim fast and take in the relevant information.

Is your son on the Autistic spectrum? He sounds a lot like my son.

Reading broadens the vocabulary and improves general literacy. It exercises the imagination as a reader is forced to create mental pictures rather than being presented with those pictures. It also allows for greater depth in conveying ideas than visual communication. If you think those things matter, then you'll value reading. I'm sure gaming and other media offer other benefits and skill development that are different, so i don't understand the comparison. Its a bit like asking if a walk in the park is as good as an apple.

I think reading fluency was often seen as the holy grail rather than comprehension and practical application which is transferable and more aligned with intelligence. If a child is reading but not understanding or interrogating the text and asking questions of it while they go through then yes I'd agree with you.

There’s reading and there’s reading. If you’re reading a solid diet of mediocre (but often fun) kids fiction - Blyton for my generation, those bloody glittery fairy books or something similar, for this maybe - then you’re not going to be enhancing your vocabulary or learning much. That’s not to say that they’re not fun, or kids shouldn’t read them in moderation, of course.

But if you’re encouraging your kids to read an eclectic range of books - classics, modern fiction, non-fiction, even adult books where they’re not hugely age inappropriate - they’re going to be learning a lot more than through most games. There are exceptions to every rule, of course - some games are far more beneficial than others. But few give you in the insights into history, other cultures, philosophy(…) and build vocabulary and critical thinking in the way that reading can.

There are exceptions to every rule, of course - some games are far more beneficial than others. But few give you in the insights into history, other cultures, philosophy(…) and build vocabulary and critical thinking in the way that reading can.

The assassin's creed and civilization franchises are probably good for this.

I‘m not sure I understand this? Surely he does read a lot, or where else would he be getting all this knowledge and vocabulary? And you say he doesn’t read much for fun…but since he seems to be independently seeking out all these topics and information, he must be garnering a huge amount of enjoyment from it?

He sounds like a voracious reader to me. Good for him.

@burnoutbabe I did have a gaming period in my 30s and enjoyed it for all the reason you list. I can't do it now, as I always did struggle with 3D sickness and enhanced graphics made it worse. 10 minutes on a friend's PS4 and I had to lie down...

I don’t think either of those are marketed at children though?

I play those games, and while they go to lengths to make historical information available to the gamer who chooses to access it, I bet the percentage of those that do is very low. And the information given is very piecemeal, factoidy, and deeply lacking in the wider historical and social context that you would find in any half-decent book on the matter. They are definitely not, in that sense, “good for this”.

Certain games make me feel sick now -it's the "head Bob" effect, luckily you can turn it off in games it appears in - dishonoured I am looking at you!

Gaming - very different to programming or coding - is very poor for developing problem solving or analytical skills as most games are written with finite options - many are seek and find for example - whereas real life involves problems of much greater complexity and problems that can't be solved requiring a total rethink.

This might have been true once but games today are incredibly complex, if you look at some of the massive open-world games for example, you might have a certain goal but countless ways to approach it, lots of different factors to weigh against each other. They very explicitly require problem-solving and strategising, thinking ahead several steps.

Then there are the character builds, for the game my son and I play, there are several dozen characters you can play, each having about 10 different elements that need to be levelled up in very different ways, so you need to strategise how to balance all these tasks and then figure out which ones to use in which situations. That's just the background to the actual game.

So it depends what kind of games you play I guess, but my son has absolutely learned all sorts of analytical and strategy skills.

There's a reason places like GCHQ and technology companies recruit heavily among gamers.

It totally depends on the person. My DD has ADHD and too much screen time/gaming has a marked effect on her symptoms, behaviour and mood, which reading doesn't. The draw of the dopamine fix from mobiles and games consoles can be incredibly addictive and can completely overtake all other activities in life. I'd say very few people experience that with reading in relation to screens and gaming.

I think reading is a skill for everyone and is so important. In most professions you need to read and comprehend information to be able to perform well or interact well. Agree this is sadly changing into videos etc. But those who quickly read and understand will have an advantage.
Many times even the most professional people don't have best communication skills and the ones who have the best communication skills seem to be the one who read a lot. I can't generalise this ofc but this is based on my experience.

I’m old school. Gaming won’t help you to read and write. What games are on the “canon” of the greatest of all time? We get so many of our references from literature. I think it’s a travesty not to read. To be ignorant of books is to miss out on so much x

There’s some truth in this, but it’s not as powerful a tool for analytical thinking as you’re making out, in my opinion. Most of the more complex strategies I can think of in all the games I play actually rely more on me thinking how the game designer planned it, knowing the tricks and tools and games logic that is so common across so many games platforms. And of course I can never truly strategise because they are only so many pre-determined options built into the game. It’s essentially a fancy Tetris, in that’s sense: some skill and strategy required, but only so many options within the confines of the world created.

much better to have children develop analytical skills outside in the real world (books not much good for this either, though understand human character, frailty, emotions and motivation through reading history and fiction is incredibly useful for real strategy and analytics in the real world, since human behaviour is at the heart of it) or learning physics or maths through books or real world application in non-human contexts.

Gaming is great, but it’s not quite capable of what reading (or of course real world experience) can give you.

Some of you have mentioned the type of reading, and I would agree, there. It's not that I don't value it, it's that I don't think fluency in it is the greatest indicator.

I can turn a phrase well, I will grant you, and, back in the day I could certainly analyse text with the best of them. I got a degree in it. But my problem solving ability is generally pretty dire (something almost every teacher of mine in subjects which required it, referenced).
@LightSwerve mentioned woodworking, etc, and I wholly agree with that, but craft was another area I was shite at. My analytical ability only seems to exist for literature. It's probably totally a 'me' quirk, but it doesn't seem to translate anywhere else. I suspect it does in genuinely bright kids, and I think that might be a key point. Gaming probably doesn't work for the gaming equivalent of me, but may well be a launch point for those more able to access the skills they gain in other areas. Interesting.

YABU (but I accidentally clicked Yanbu). Being a good reader puts you at a huge advantage, and reading is strongly associated with academic success. The fact you have a degree means you are more highly educated than most people, even if you struggle with maths.

If you are stuck in minimum wage jobs there are probably other issues holding you back.

I agree gaming isn't all bad and does develop some skills but it's nowhere near as important as reading. The reading age of many GCSE exams is 12, which means quite a few children can't pass even if they are ok at eg maths.

There are exceptions to every rule, of course - some games are far more beneficial than others. But few give you in the insights into history, other cultures, philosophy(…) and build vocabulary and critical thinking in the way that reading can.

Perhaps, but for example, my son has learned a lot about East Asian cultures and history through gaming. He's learned virtually nothing about them in school (he's secondary age), and if I asked him to read a book about Japanese history he'd probably not be keen. He sometimes plays games with Japanese or Korean language on and has learned a few phrases, his dream is to travel there when he's older.

Gaming is partly why youth culture today has such an Asian influence, which personally I think is a great thing