Anger and sadness at this interaction with homeless person

[BlueCupOrangeCup]

Tonight, a polite homeless man named Kevin told me he secured a spot in a 12-week program at St Mungo's after a year of homelessness. He needed £7.50 urgently to go there tonight and had been trying all day. Skeptical, I regretfully declined, later realizing he might have been genuine.

I'm replaying the whole conversation in my head and now I think I recall him almost bursting into tears as he asked if there was any way at all I could help him.

This one might have been genuine and I'm so disgusted with myself.

I could have helped. I had a £5 note in my purse....and I am fortunate enough that I wouldn't miss it or notice it gone.

And at the same time I'm also so angry at scammers of this thing. If someone stood in front of you asking begging for a small amount of money to help them and you knew it was genuine OF COURSE all of us would help! But genuine people don't get the help they need because scammers make people have attitudes like mine tonight.

There is no way to phone st Mungo's now to 'pre pay' for Kevin should he turn up tonight....meanwhile I'm going home to sleep in my warm bed and work my lovely job tomorrow.

Poor Kevin, I'm sorry I didn't help you.

I used to be very naive and always give willingly to beggars and feel genuinely awful for their plight, until I started working in services linked to housing etc when I was shocked at how much help, support, financial assistance etc a lot of them get.

I've heard numerous sob stories "I've been made homeless I can't get any help" and I'd be desperately wanting to support and find them a place, until I'd find out that they've actually been rehoused numerous times, but due to violence and drugs have had to leave houses, hostels, shared accommodation, hmo etc. They have had chance after chance but aren't actually capable/willing to do 'normal' things like pay bills, clean, not leave needles in public spaces, be considerate to neighbours, stay within the limits of the law etc.

There is no easy answer, it's not as easy as give them a house or give them money, it really really isn't. Those on the streets begging for cash have likely had numerous offers of support and giving cash is going to do jack all but supply their addiction and so the cycle continues. It is sad, but giving money will not help. Better to donate to a charity.

It won't be long before we have the zombie cities like in USA

The program itself is free - maybe the £7.50 was to travel there?

Former drugs worker here, no someone will not die if they cannot get hold of their drug of choice, they might , as in the case of heroin withdrawal, feel like they want to die but they will not die without a hit.They will feel awful and do all they can to raise and score but they will not die specifically from not having their drug of choice. The lifestyle is risky too, blood bourne viruses, poor nutrition, not accessing healthcare for other physical problems, all these things have an adverse effects on a person's health Alcohol is different, if someone is drinking very heavily suddenly stopping can be really dangerous.

Backtracking to try to appear caring isn't helping your argument. I am across the complexity that is homelessness and you have a lot to learn. Working with a company that has street teams? C'mon. Therw are no companies in the woeful business of homelessness, it is left to charities to pick up the pieces. You've taken tidbits of hearsay and come up with false information.

@falafelover Some of these people seem to see a fix as a nice little treat, as if it was a cupcake or something.

😂Yes I am also quite surprised that some posters are basically telling others that they need to get off their high horse as so what if they use the fiver you donated for bus fare to injecting drugs into themselves to cheer them up. Hmm let's see how you feel if that happens on your doorstep/shoots up in front of your children then. Got a feeling a lot of such posters have never had any interaction with any drug users and don't realise just how manipulative addicts can be.

probably just going to use it on booze.

…like me.

i just get to drink in the warm.

Just been in Kings Cross Station tonight and had this EXACT tale told to me. Doesn’t mean the guys wasn’t homeless of course but it might make you feel better OP

I really can't understand how homeless can effectively beg anymore due to so few people carrying cash. Surely this will make it impossible in the future?

OP, you don’t need to feel bad. This man was definitely spinning you a tale and pulling at the heart strings. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a scam, just an unwell man desperate for his fix and prepared to tell a lie to a stranger in order to get it. It is sad that anyone is in that state but giving him money wouldnt help him in the long run.

I work for a homeless charity and have done for many years. I actually used to work for ST Mungos for a couple of years and I can confirm they don’t run anything like a ‘12 week program’ What would that even be? Like a rehab? St Mungo’s provide (mostly) hostel based housing and support not rehabilitation, that’s something that you would need to go to a be referred to medical professionals for. I have never heard of any homeless charity running such a thing. Helping people access them, yes, but not running them and certainly not charging people £7.50 to access them from the streets! It would be absurd. Rehabs actually cost thousands of pounds (to the NHS, if you can get one) why would they bother taking £7.50 at all?

It’s a common tactic with a lot of people that beg to claim something along these lines. I have certainly been asked ‘I need £5 for a hostel for the night, I have only got £3, have you got £2 to spare’. It’s nonsense, it’s not how it works.

Incidentally, most hostels do charge their service users a small amount of rent. But not upfront for the night and not until they have their benefits sorted out for them. A lot of homeless people I worked with got quite a lot in benefits actually as many of the longer term homeless do end up with physical health problems and disabilities. Unfortunately this money usually goes on their addictions and causes the need to continue begging, even when they are housed.

There is a whole page about paying rent and how to do it

I am not backtracking. Im not on here virtue signalling on homeless unlike you. We dont leave it to charities to pick up the pieces, as well has having people on the streets we sponsor staff working for a homeless charity. We are a private non profit business.

I'd rather people just be honest and say they need money. Preferably not an amount. But honestly at the end of the day, people aren't homeless bc they want to be. Whatever reasons might play into their life. We know that a meal, a warm drink, a smoke or a few dollars won't break most of us . At the same time, when someone tells me their house got burnt down and 2 months later the same guy tells me the same thing ( different place) I called him out. I told him just tell the truth and gave him a few bucks.

Most places will not charge esp that amount. It's either covered through a government or charity program. Don't beat yourself up.

People just refuse to accept the words of those who know and work in this area.
Housing is available. But many refuse / are unable to meet the conditions. These are very basic and not onerous conditions.
Therefore far greater help os required than just getting them somewhere to live and on benefits, because they are homeless for a reason. Addiction, severe sen, not being able to meet societies norms.
There is a lot of help but it's not great, hotels, bedsits, many of the counted figures live with family / friends so the ones you see on the streets are disproportionately the ones who don't meet the council conditions or the hostel requirements, eg being sober when you arrive.

It's not that a homeless person can't be trusted, it's that giving cash on the street is not necessarily helpful as it often causes someone struggling with addiction to get worse. If you genuinely care about homeless people then give money to organisations that know what they are doing, and or provide practical or social help - talk to them, offer to wash their clothes, ask if you can give them food, drink, clothing etc. Also obviously never vote Tory. Giving cash to beggars and voting Tory has to be the ultimate in virtue signalling hypocrisy

If you wouldn't miss it, why not give it to him anyway?

Would he spend it on his addiction?
Possibly, addiction is a mental illness and can contribute to homelessness.
Does this mean we ignore all those who have addiction issues because they're not worthy of our help?

Why is a homeless person asking for 7.50 a scam? (I'm aiming this at other posters, not just you, OP)

If someone is on the street asking for 7.50, do you automatically think they're lying? Oh, some people are working, and then they beg on the streets to scam people out of money. Do they? I work full time, and 1) I don't have time to stand on the streets and try and scam people for money. 2) there is a massive cost of living crisis. Parents who work full-time have to reach out to clothing banks and food banks to clothe and feed their children.

If you wouldn't miss it, why not give it? No questions asked.

When I was in student halls in Liverpool there used to be a middle aged man begging outside most days and he would always show this big ulcer on his leg and say he needed money to get to hospital. We were about 3 blocks from the Royal but he always said he needed to go to Broadgreen which is further away. Anyway one of my flatmates had a visitor from the US, very generous and chatty. He got talking to the man and next thing we knew he was putting him in a taxi and accompanying him to the hospital. The man wasn't seen for a few months but when he did come back his leg had been amputated. He carried on begging as before.

It was over 20 years ago when things were much easier benefits wise and you never really saw that many homeless in Liverpool in those days, so I'm sure he would have been offered housing and benefits after his operation or maybe he already had them before. He was a fixture and lots of people knew him locally. Begging and homelessness is a serious problem in Liverpool now, even in suburban areas. It really ramped up after austerity. I remember being shocked to see disabled people begging as previously it would only have been able bodied. At least we aren't at the point of having young children begging on the street as I have witnessed in Belgium.

It's a scam because they are lying about what they want money for. If they asked for 7.50 without specifying a reason it wouldn't be a scam, regardless of their situation. Although it would still be illegal.

And the reason not to give to them is it's unlikely to help and will probably make things worse and if you genuinely care about homeless people there are ways to actually help.

This is not the same as ignoring those with addiction issues!

But if they do want to buy drugs (god knows what for 7.50) or alcohol, then they wouldn't say, would they, because of the refusal and the judgment?

I understand homelessness and the issues surrounding it very well.

But it’s not just £7.50 is it? He may have been begging for hours and made much more in total. Some DO make £100s a day to support major addictions. You are NOT helping homeless people who are begging in the street by giving them money, you are enabling their addiction. By all means but them food, pay for a hotel for the night if you can afford it, offer them advise and kindness but don’t kid yourself into thinking that giving them spare change is helping. I can see why people do it and that it usually comes from a place of kindness but it’s not helping.

Both alcohol and benzodiazepines can cause death if abruptly stopped which is what I was referring to.

As for Opioids. No you can't die from opioid withdrawal but opioid sickness is horrendous and forcing someone to withdraw from opioids when they are not willing and ready to is cruel and completely useless

£7.50 is quite a smart amount to ask for. More than a fiver, but if you're kind enough to give a tenner, you're not going to stand there and ask for the change, are you?!

I agree. I live in an area with a high homeless and high addiction rates.
Our town is a shit hole because of the antisocial behaviour that goes hand in hand with begging and drug use.
Can't use a cash machine or a parking machine in the town without being asked for money. One afternoon I was told by a nice chap that I was lucky he even asked, as he could have just taken my purse.
There are needles everywhere. One of the local parks was shut by the council there were so many needles in the sand.
Oh and let's not forget the unfortunate incidents of when they overdose and they're found by members of the public..

Let's not even get into the people who get harassed for their medication outside the pharmacies, or the front doors being tried by addicts in the night, or the cars being broken into. I'm not a car person, so I'm not sure how they managed it, but one of my neighbours had their car battery taken by two of the local beggars. They forwarded on the ring footage of two of them carrying away said battery.

No it's not a nice life, and they do deserve help, but it isn't fair on the rest of the community to have to put up with begging and associated behaviour.

Sorry, he was lying. How do I know? Been in the exact situation few times and seen the person do it another person right after me. Feel so stupid but then proceed to make the mistake again.

If you read what I said I did specify that abruptly ceasing to drink can be very dangerous. I also said that heroin withdrawal is horrible, it is trying to avoid rattling that drives people to keep using and scoring, the initial buzz/euphoria will just be a distant memory. I have never worked in a service that has advocated forcing people to withdraw, it was always managed by the use of substitute medication. Nobody I have ever worked with used benzos on anything other than an occasional basis, so knowledge about risky dependence within the context of street drug use is outside my sphere of experience. The people I supported would buy them if they were around, but the central focus was heroin and crack. They would combine the two and inject them, I have seen some horrible absecces and wounds from this practice as the crack numbs the injection site so people just keep digging away. I am aware that people who have long term prescriptions for benzos(which really should not be happening) should have clinical supervision to reduce and eventually stop taking them.

I had a similar situation quite a few years ago with a youngish woman sitting under a bridge that leads from Brighton station to the North Laines crying her eyes out because she was desperate to get a train home to see her mother before she died.

We were both about the same age (early 20s) and I really felt for her and said, don't worry come with me to the station and I will buy your ticket for you right now.

Which she really, adamantly did not want to do, but really was very keen to have the cash instead.

Ultimately it's you're money and if something doesn't sit right then it's up to you what you do with it.

I can't see how a 12 week programme would cost £7.50 , either