Anger and sadness at this interaction with homeless person

[BlueCupOrangeCup]

Tonight, a polite homeless man named Kevin told me he secured a spot in a 12-week program at St Mungo's after a year of homelessness. He needed £7.50 urgently to go there tonight and had been trying all day. Skeptical, I regretfully declined, later realizing he might have been genuine.

I'm replaying the whole conversation in my head and now I think I recall him almost bursting into tears as he asked if there was any way at all I could help him.

This one might have been genuine and I'm so disgusted with myself.

I could have helped. I had a £5 note in my purse....and I am fortunate enough that I wouldn't miss it or notice it gone.

And at the same time I'm also so angry at scammers of this thing. If someone stood in front of you asking begging for a small amount of money to help them and you knew it was genuine OF COURSE all of us would help! But genuine people don't get the help they need because scammers make people have attitudes like mine tonight.

There is no way to phone st Mungo's now to 'pre pay' for Kevin should he turn up tonight....meanwhile I'm going home to sleep in my warm bed and work my lovely job tomorrow.

Poor Kevin, I'm sorry I didn't help you.

Don’t feel deflated. Even if it was a scam, you bought those items out of the good of your heart. You could have ignored and moved on and if she were genuine then you would have ignored a vulnerable, desperate person. Don’t let a scam make you feel bad about your good actions.

I’ve given money to what I thought was a homeless beggar! As soon as he took my £5, his iphone started ringing and it looked like a newer version than mine! Fool me once……

however just go with your gut, you don’t owe them anything in the first place. If you want to give great and if you don’t then there is no need to feel bad about it.

Crikey I've only read a handful of posts but the sanctimony on display is grim.

It is no-one's place to dictate who each of us choose to give our money to. Or to judge people living with addiction.

90 percent of us are just 2 disasters away from homelessness. Please try to find a little kindness and compassion for people living with the hell that is homelessness. They are people like you and me.

If I'm going to condemn anybody for that (and I'm happy to) it won't be the poor bugger who's sleeping outside in this weather. It'll be the middle-class professional who thinks a line or two rounds off a nice dinner party or needs it to 'relax' after a tricky week at the coalface centrally heated comfy office

This is what I do op. When I'm confronted in such a situation, if it's nothing to me to lose 5 pounds I would give it. Does it matter how it is spent? If it's on drugs or a home for the night, it's still 5 pounds that's gone. The difference is if you're right then you have a clear conscience, if you're wrong then you still have a clear conscience because your intentions were still good.

How far was st mungos? Was it transport costs?

on a side note I always find the “i buy food and water” thing a bit virtue signalling, I’ve sadly come across loads of homeless folks and never are they sitting there looking well fed or with a load of food. And based on the amount of folks that say it, they would be.

Do you immediately donate to every charity you’ve just heard of? Or only when you can boast about it on here?

I think you’re conveniently overlooking some of the comments. Everyone should of course decide what to do but informing yourself doesn’t go amiss. @KinS24 is correct in saying that those working in that sector, say you shouldn’t give money.

On my very first day of working in that sector, as part of our induction, we had a talk about how giving money only makes the entire situation worse. It might make you feel better, that you’re helping a homeless person but the reality is the very opposite.

I've never been abused or threatened by a homeless person - genuinely - and I think it's because I am always polite and apologetic if I'm saying no. I do sometimes give money to homeless people - mostly in my home town, where there are relatively few and they're all well-known in the community (each has some level of mental illness and has not been able to get on with accommodation, their names and histories are well known, and they are accepted and looked after pretty well for the most part although sadly they also sometimes get abuse).

I do care about how someone uses money I give them, because I don't want anyone to die with a needle in their arm that I paid for, or to die of exposure clutching a whisky bottle that I funded. When people say "I'd want a fix too if I were homeless" I understand that it's meant well but I also think there's an assumption underlying it that homeless people must have such shit lives that it doesn't matter if they end. I don't think that's true, personally.

Which cities are these?

How is it enforced?
What happens to the people involved, the person who gives the money and the person who receives it?

How can individual cities make their own laws?

A few people have said on this thread that they're happy for someone to buy drugs or alcohol with money they've given them.

Out of interest, if someone were to approach you and say, "Excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm homeless and a heroin addict and I need money for my next hit." Would you still give them money or do you need the illusion that it might be for food, shelter or transport, and if so why is that, when you say you don't mind people buying drugs with money you give them?

If someone asks me for money and I have some, I'll probably give them some. When they are weaving between cars at the traffic lights, I usually just put my hand out with a few coins. I don't need a story. The fact they're spending their days dodging cars tells me everything I need to know. I feel sad for people who have no compassion, what an empty existence.

He was lying. st mungos don’t give them a spot and no support to get there.

Your £7.50 might have been the money that enabled him to buy the hit that killed him.

Donate the money to a charity that supports people with addiction.

I'm the first to give cash to homeless people, and happy for them to spend it on whatever they like. Also buy meals for them and other stuff. Happily.

... and OP, you have nothing to feel bad about. Any homeless organisation offering something of this magnitude to a client would have ways of ensuring clients could get there. They wouldn't say 'oh, here's a three month course that will cost taxpayers/charity donators literally tens of thousands of pounds to run, but if you can't beg up less than a tenner to get there then tough luck, better luck next time!'

He was just trying to beg with an evocative tale to pull the heart strings, as many do. Forgive yourse.f

@Lifeomars “How can individual cities make their own laws?”

Through the process of bylaws. They can’t make up any old thing, they have to be enabled by a more general public act. But it allows for local legislation. That’s why in some cities there are areas where you cannot drink alcohol in the street.

I gave a woman €20 once outside a petrol station, I believed her sob story about her needing to feed her children... As I filled up the car, she went in and bought a box of fags!!!

As you say, genuine people who need help miss out because of people like this as I am reluctant to help anyone homeless who claims to need help, again...

I apologise for the emotional nature of my original post last night. The phrase homelessness is just the other side of your front door has always run chills through my spine. It's terrifying that it might happen to any of us through the vicissitudes of life and that's perhaps why I get more emotional about this topic.

I have made a donation to a local homelessness charity this morning, of course.

I don't think I will ring St Mungo's to ask about this £7.50 to secure a place on a 12 week programme, since I'm fairly sure now that it's not how St Mungo's operate. Their staff have more important things to be doing than answering my daft questions. (It was not for transport, it was to secure a place...which is a bonkers story now I think about it 12hrs later.)

To those saying "if I can afford it, I give. If it's a scam, so what? - The answer is that often just handing over money directly funds organised crime/human trafficking gangs. It's wat stopped me last night, and it is the exact opposite of what I want to fund! If these rings are funded through "rather give it just in case" then it's worth the while for the criminals to keep running these rings. It is the very opposite of what I want to achieve. Most people don't care as much about whether it's spent on drink/drugs (though some posters have made some interesting points about this too) but they absolutely do care that it could be directly funding human traffickers. Nobody wants to fund human trafficking.

Posters who work with the homeless or have direct experiences of it such as @Lorieandrews , @Treeper22 , @Barleysugar86 , @Josette77 , @Manyandyoucanwalkover , @Startingagainandagain ,have made some really interesting points about why it's better to never hand over money. Thank you for the thoughts and the links to articles...

Feeling very sheepish at the posters pointing out that it might have been a ploy to get me to take out my purse, put it back only to be pickpocketed later, or be distracted during the conversation. I'm usually quite wise but not last night, it seems.

@DistressedDamson and @FeliciousM I really hope your lives are better now and you're in a good place. Thank you for sharing. And yes absolutely asking for money is safer than the alternative way for women to come by quick money.

@Flickersy - YES! you're completely right when you say "A shockingly high percentage of homeless people have jobs [...] and most homeless people are not sleeping on the streets - they are sofa surfing or otherwise going from one place to another." Thank you for pointing this out, not something people think of absolutely worth highlighting....

On my very first day of working in that sector, as part of our induction, we had a talk about how giving money only makes the entire situation worse. It might make you feel better, that you’re helping a homeless person but the reality is the very opposite.

But there have been two posters on here that have experienced homelessness and said the opposite. Ones poster said that asking for money from people meant she didn’t have to sell herself.

Then we’ve had another poster saying they work in a relevant charity and there is not enough to go around.

So, it’s not an across the board experience that giving money makes it worse for everyone. And there are people who do get turned away from charities.

You know, I looked up the advice from homelessness charities as to whether or not to give money on the street and there's quite a wide variety of opinions on it. I'd previously always thought that it was a straightforward no from all experts in the field.

I gave a woman €20 once outside a petrol station, I believed her sob story about her needing to feed her children... As I filled up the car, she went in and bought a box of fags!!!

I no longer give anyone money after several experiences of being scammed.

The first time was when I was a teenager, and a young man with learning difficulties approached me at a bus station asking for his bus fare. I was about to hand it over when someone intervened. Apparently the man hung around the bus station all day asking for his bus fare, and probably made quite a bit out of it.

Another one that stands out was when a boy of about ten, with his mates, asked me for bus fare. I handed it over. Then a few minutes later, the same boy approached me again with the same request.

I did have an experience similar to the OP's when a young man asked me for money, telling me he'd just been kicked out of home, and I automatically said 'no'. He started crying. I walked on, but felt so bad about it I turned back and went looking for him. I never found him again.

Just a few days ago I was waiting for someone, phone in hand, when a man came up to me and began 'can you help me, I left my phone on the train...' I stepped back and he just walked off. Later I saw him snuggled in a sleeping bag in a door way. I doubt he'd left his phone on a train. Not sure what would have happened if I'd been naïve enough to 'lend' him my phone.

Homelessness breaks my heart but giving cash to randoms on the street is not helping.

I have a monthly DD to St Mungos, who I believe do really good work. This way I can do my bit without having to try to work out who might be a worthy recipient of the cash I happen to have on me.

@xILikeJamx
In my area at least there's no way any homeless services would charge an individual - they get money from public sector grants. I spent many a weekend pounding the streets at night talking to rough sleepers and trying to get them to engage with services and into accommodation for the night and the majority refused (or if they did give it a try, would vanish after a few days and appear on the streets again.)

Whilst I agree that "Kevin" sounds like a liar, the level of homeless support you talk of doesn't exist everywhere. It's difficult to hear people saying there's help out there for the genuine when I know from experience there isn't, necessarily.

When I was homeless the only support I was entitled to was the most basic level, which was the council signposting where to find rooms to rent (in an area where this type of accommodation was snapped up, and landlords wouldn't usually accept Housing Benefit). The only hostel in the town was reserved for those whom the council had deemed "in priority need" and accepted a legal duty to house - so those with dependent children, disabled people, elderly people etc. (And that was only if you passed the other tests such as a connection to the local area). It was very much a case of have and have nots in homeless provision. You could be on the list for a sought-after council property, whilst the council kept a roof over your head in the meantime. Access to a social worker etc. Or be offered nothing at all, not even a hostel place whilst you found your own accommodation.

Shelter were as useless as a chocolate teapot, and I have loathed them since. They told me stuff I already knew (from using the internet at the library) then when the council decided they had no duty to house me, Shelter washed their hands of me too. They said they help they provide was about making sure people knew their legal rights and helping them approach their local council.

I would always recommend giving to a local homeless charity if you want to help directly. It was a local grassroots charity that helped me in the end. They didn't have a hostel but did offer practical support such as an address, somewhere to shower and wash clothes, hot food etc. They also appeared to know more than Shelter about legal rights as they argued (successfully) that I should be given a hostel place whilst the council made a decision on my case!

Even the social worker at the hostel commented on the sheer unfairness of it all. I wondered later if she'd subtley got involved and delayed the decision on my case to buy me more time.

Apologies for the long post, kinda spilled out!

Sorry OP, that sort of thing is standard patter designed to create sympathy and the desire to assist because it appears that the hand tapper is trying to access support.

You know. They’re always screaming out for volunteers within hostels etc

even if you could do an hour a month. We’re always on the lookout. Join street groups who go out once a month?

there is loads you can do to help

I once bought a lady formula milk and nappies when she approached me at a supermarket telling me she can't feed her baby

These are high value items, and among the most shoplifted, too. I'm sorry, but the odds are you were scammed.

I give food eg pie/ chips/ biscuits/ dog food, or a hot drink, but never money.