Colleague said something was a bit Irish

[0scon]

Something that hadn't been planned properly, she said it was a bit Irish and laughed.
Is that not quite racist? Or am I being too woke?

UK.

I’m aware of Paddy (the name) being a pejorative for Irish and would never use it, but I was not aware that paddy (the noun meaning toddler strop) is any more associated with Paddy (the name) than paddy (the noun meaning rice) is. Does this make sense?

Obviously I won’t be using paddy (meaning strop) now I am aware. However castigating people for not knowing, or for explaining their reasoning, is bizarre and counterproductive.

Oh. Right.

I mean the negative stereotypes associated with Irish people in the UK are well known so I don't see why the meaning is being questioned - it's obvious surely.

Fully agree that we all use phrases with dubious meaning without knowing, that's very understandable. I think it's very different to continue to use a phrase or defend it once the meaning is explained.

No I don’t think it’s obvious at all. Words can have two entirely separate meanings. There’s no reason to know there’s a connection between paddy (strop) and Paddy (pejorative slang for Irish person). Especially since paddy has other meanings (rice).

Do people associate the name Mark with mark (as in make a mark upon something) or the German currency that preceded the Euro?

Continuing to defend its use when the meaning is explained is an entirely different matter.

This thread has reminded of a joke told by one of the much-loved Irish comedians that were once a feature of Saturday night viewing. Can it still be told?

The foreman on a London building site has a reputation for only hiring the most intelligent workers. A Scotsman, Welshman and Irishman arrive looking for work. Each is invited into the office and asked to explain the differences between girders and joists.
Scotsman: "Horizontal beams, in steel they're girders in wood they're joists".
Welshman: "Horizontal load-bearing beam made of wood is a joist, if it's made of steel it's a girder".
Irishman: "Goethe wrote Faust, Joyce wrote Ulysses".

😂😂😂😂

Ok then, seeing as you asked. In the OED there are 10 meanings of the word Paddy. See (1) for main meaning (i.e. Paddy) and 4 for paddy as in temper - derived from Irishman, and labelled 'derogatory'

1. colloquial. Now potentially offensive.
Usually in form Paddy. An Irishman.
Frequently used as a derogatory form of address.

1.b.
1809–
to come (the) paddy over: to dupe or hoodwink, by means of the supposed Irish talent for flattery or persuasive talk (cf. blarney n.).

1.c.
1925–
In form Paddy. A proprietary name for: an Irish whiskey. Hence more widely (also paddy): any Irish whiskey. Also: a drink of this.

2.
1856–
colloquial. A bricklayer's or builder's labourer or assistant

3.
1876–
English regional. = Paddywatch n. Now rare

4.
1888–
U.S. colloquial. In form Paddy. The ruddy duck, Oxyura jamaicensis. Cf. paddywhack n.2. Now rare.

5.
1894–
colloquial. A fit of temper, a rage; a hot temper. Esp. in in a paddy. Cf. paddywhack n. 4
Paddywhack
1.a.
1773–
Chiefly derogatory. An Irishman.

6.
1895–
A type of drill with expanding cutters (see quot. 1895).

7.
1927–
Railways slang. A train for conveying coal from a pithead. Now historical.

8.
1945–
slang. Also Paddy. Originally and chiefly in African American usage; also among Hispanic Americans: a white person

And under 'Irish' the OED has
5.a.
c1475–
Characteristic or typical of Irish people, life, or culture. In earlier use frequently with derogatory connotations, esp. of foolishness.

5.c.
1820–
colloquial (offensive). Of a statement or action: paradoxical; illogical or apparently so.

So there you go, both 'paddy' in the sense of tantrum and 'Irish' in the sense of illogicality are derogatory and therefore likely to be offensive. hth

Well "black" isn't a race either. Nor is Pakistani. The race is "human". So if ethnic slurs aren't racism then there is no such thing as racism.

I was watching a show years ago on the BBC and a farmer used it to describe the dodgy practices he engaged in to hire people when harvesting crops sporadically. I tried to make a complaint to Ofcom but I couldn't because I wasn't in the UK.

It's offensive, and usually used by people who feel they are inadequate to belittle someone else in order to hide their inadequacy.

I think you mean "to be sure"

I've found English IT systems are often anti-Irish, being unable to cope with an O' surname.

Thank you for your diligence.
I had seen reference to Paddywhack being used to describe a 'Whacking great Paddy', which fits the description of some of my ancestors who were navvies.
Additionally, I have seen paddywhack used for a slap by nurse/nanny presumably in response to a child 'having/throwing a paddy'.

I will have to choose my words wisely, particularly if the person in question has had one too many Paddys.

I'm Irish, living in London. A few years ago DH and I had to explain to a friend that it was ok for us to say Paddy's Day on St Patrick's Day as it was just a shortening of Patrick.

He asked if paddy bar, paddy wagon were then ok as we just used the term paddy. We had to explain that it wasn't because he was using paddy to mean Irish and that is offensive. I think he got it but I'm still not sure

Regarding St. Patrick's Day I abhor St. Patty's Day that so many Americans use.

'Race' is usually described as a social construct or pseudoscience, which doesn't mean that groups of people can't be 'racialised' by 'racists' - i.e. those who believe in the innate superiority of one group over another.

The Irish have certainly been racialised, particularly by the British, and particularly in the 19th Century when belief in racial science was at a peak, with the Irish deemed inferior, and often aligned with Africans in terms of English ideas of modernity and superiority.

For example, the Scottish philosopher Thomas Carlyle described the Irish as 'white negroes' and Charles Kingsley, chaplain to Queen Victoria and author of the hugely popular (and still in print) children's book The Water Babies had this to say when touring Ireland:'I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country. To see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black one would not see it so much, but their skins are as white as ours.'The Water Babies has a good example of the derogatory use of 'Paddy' and the racialising of the Irish: "Why," said Tom, "they are growing no better than savages." "And look how ugly they are all getting," said Ellie. "Yes; when people live on poor vegetables instead of roast beef and plum-pudding, their jaws grow large, and their lips grow coarse, like the poor Paddies who eat potatoes."With Ireland's relative economic and cultural success coterminous with a perception of Britain 'declining' due to Brexit etc there may be less anti-Irish humour around, but I don't know anyone brought up in Ireland who moved to the UK who hasn't had to endure anti-Irish jokes and comments. It's not 'woke' or 'humourless' to be offended given the long history of anti-Irish racism (and of course British colonialism/violence in Ireland) and it would be good if British people could call out this racism/prejudice/bigotry/offensiveness when it occurs.I think this article probably communicates the issue very effectively:https://www.ft.com/content/1efefa49-6e57-4743-b44b-20501432d307 

Ok @0scon you really are going to have to explain your objection to this, I'm not seeing it at all.

I'm a child of the 70's and grew up with phrases like 'oh that's a bit Irish'. 'he's having a paddy' 'no she's ran away with a black man' (when a child asked if their mum was there'

all kinds of things that when you actually look at them obviously would have caused offence to Irish/black, but hadn't intended to be. They were just stick phrases that meant 'what you're doing doesn't make sense/is the wrong way. He's kicking off. No I don't know where your mother is.

in 30 years time there will be a reason why 'kicking off' is a terrible thing to say.

Eejit she's right

Well the shortening of a saints name is bizarre. St Andy's day, st Davey's day. I don't think so

@0scon Are you Irish or of Irish heritage? And was the person who said it Irish, or of Irish heritage?
If the answer to the first question is yes, and the second is no, then you can of course think it’s racist, but you should tell them that is how you, of Irish heritage, feel about their casual racism.
If the answer to the first question is no, and the second is yes, then you’re being woke. Not only that, but you’re taking offence by proxy, which is somewhat pathetic as the person is self-deprecating.
Two yeses and it’s a harmless remark that brings you together in the famous art of Irish self-deprecation, two nos, and you can point out that it’s a good job you’re not Irish, or you could take offence. (I have strong Irish heritage, but wouldn’t take offence to this…)

That's up to you. I'm not English, Welsh or Scottish so can't make that decision for you. It's quite normal for Irish people

You completely missed the point though, on purpose

Without looking it up (I will look it up after posting this), I would have thought "kicking off" meant something similar to what it means in a sports match i.e. "it's kicking off" means "it's all starting now" and could be used for sports, events, and yes, fights. As in "oh god, they're all starting now".

So I wouldn't have thought "kicking off" was offensive (I will go and look it up now).

So I misread the above post! And I can't find anything which says kicking off is offensive, so I suppose that bears it out...!

I am not Irish and neither is she but my DH is Irish. I wasn't offended just a bit shocked that someone might still say that and wondered what others thought. I asked DH and he said it's not offensive but people shouldn't say it

Is that not like saying men have no right to address sexism, or straight people should stay quiet in the face of homophobic comments?

Casual racism affects everyone - it's offensive to everyone as it creates more intolerance in general. It's not always about direct personal offence, it's about the environment/community/workplace we want to spend time in.

Good for you @0scon