Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

I deplore the word and would never use it in any context

Spanish for black is negro. The n word is not negro. Anyway it's the English language use of racist slang we are talking about, not another language that happens to have a similar word.

page 14 anonymous feedback from colleagues

‘Anonymous ‘anything else you’d like to share with us’ feedback from the day 16th July Race Education for Line Managers training

I also thought one of the other presenters managed a tricky situation very well, when one of the other invitees seemed to lose self-control and used offensive language. During the course a colleague was sharing an experience where an inappropriate word was used. Although it was wrong the word used, he was very much reprimanded in front of us all and when tried to apologise or explain he was threatened with 'you will be thrown of the course' I felt that Naomi could have used the 3 Cs when feeding back as I felt very uncomfortable for the colleague, the tone of the conversation and could have been dealt with more tactfully given the audience .

.....
Only issue in training was the colleague who was warned for his behaviour and i just hope he was educated as to his behaviour. I was shocked by the manner and tone used by one presenter to a colleague. After saying at the beginning this would be a safe environment and it is acknowledged we may make mistakes, she launched into a vitriolic attack. Whilst I do not condone what the colleague said and there could have been a better way of saying it, I believe he was trying to ask a valid question to aid understanding. Unfortunately it made me fearful of asking any questions and after talking about stereotypes, the presenter then 'undid' all the good that had been said before. It marred what was otherwise a thought provoking course.’
page 15 of the ruling...

“When we talk about race, people often worry about saying the wrong thing,” she said. “Please understand that today is your opportunity to practice, learn and be clumsy… The goal is to start talking, so please speak freely, and forgive yourself and others when being clumsy today.”

The world is changing and old-fashioned bigotry isn’t acceptable anymore. Get on board or go retire to the Med where you can complain about the lack of a decent fry up. Although you probably voted for Brexit, so it’s Blackpool for your seaside home.

Yet this casual ageism is fine?

Why not??, If i'm a customer at lloyds nipping in with a mate to draw some cash or deposit etc. and there is a bit of banter going on, I could hypothetically in jest call him a fuckwit, could I not.

Professional language in it's place, but if I'm a customer, talking to another customer I can just chatter away as I please can't I, so long as I'm not hurling abuse or starting a scene!

I heard something on the radio a few months ago when he won, before they determined damages, he is of an age that there is every chance he will never work again. I think he'd been a Lloyds lifer too. If he'd been working there 5 years and was 30 he would have got much less.

We do training on sensitive topics in work all the time due to the nature of my work.

Just because you're doing this type of training doesn't mean you need to witness offensive or degrading language as trainer or trainee.

He could have asked it exactly as you wrote it and said "n-word" or described it in a more sensitive way than using the actual word itself.

Similarly when I last did lgbtqa+ awareness training I managed to refrain from using homophobic language unless otherwise directly instructed to by the trainer as part of their training plan.

Personal accountability still stands here and I think he's right to have been pulled up. The only question regarding the trainer is if they were explicit in stating the boundaries around the training such as not using offensive or degrading language and being respectful of others in the room. Which I've never seen a trainer not do. That is what makes it a safe place to talk. It also needs to be a safe place for the trainer to practice.

He should have asked in a general way how to speak to bank staff about them using any potentially offensive word at work.

This thread has stirred up a memory of being in China and a black man complaining bitterly about how racist Chinese people were - the mandarin slang for 'that' sounds incredibly similar to the word in question

I didn't use the word, but I asked a similar question at an inclusion fairness and respect ambassadors meeting - but didnt use the word - I dont feel comfy when I hear the eord let alone say it out loud. Anyways, the point being, if it's inappropriate for a white person to say it, it's inappropriate for any other person to say it. But it's littered throughout grime music. I'd say it's used more today than when I was a kid in the 80s.

I'm glad he won. It's a ridiculous sacking. The trainer hmm.....

Anyways, point is it's a fair question, just don't use the word itself.

A trainer taking five days off for hearing an offensive word clearly didn’t grow up in my area. My childhood would have made them go into a coma.

I do think if you can’t talk about racism then you can’t properly ever challenge anything. Ds black mate uses the N word and I told ds his mate is doing his ancestor’s a disfavour. But maybe he isn’t? I don’t understand why it’s ok for him to use that word, and out of fear, I’d never ask either. I just tell ds is disgusting and stay ignorant due to fear of discussion. I’ve need heard my black peers use the word, just kids.

@ComtesseDeSpair It’s usually a box ticking exercise on things like this so that companies cover their arses and to show they’re inclusive etc. It’s done because some people are racist and will try to claim they didn’t know if it’s not done. But we all know that they do know, certainly a middle aged man, presumably at least vaguely intelligent, who has worked at a bank for many years. If the training isn’t done, these arseholes use it to their advantage and claim they didn’t know.

Of course context matters. The context being that white people who are speaking English shouldn’t say the N word as a slur. However, when speaking in Spanish, white people may use the same word to refer to the colour black. However, if they are using the N word as a slur in Spanish, it would be akin to using the word “black” as a racist insult (and not a descriptive term) when speaking English.

That is my take on it as an anti racist white person; I’m happy to be corrected.

I see it as black people reclaiming the word as their own as it used to be used as racism towards them.

Edit: sorry should have said still is sometimes

Have you heard the lyrics to (biggest selling US girl group of all time) TLC's "I'm Good at Being Bad"??? 😱

Not really trying to make a point. Just sharing my panic when the song comes up on my playlist when the kids are in the car! 😆

Oh dear, that old chestnut.

" seems ateenybit suspect that this person's question, when recieving anti-racism training, was about how to pull up black people on their use of language"

There may have been micro aggressions and racist undertones at play. They are not so overlooked these days and rightly so.

Can you elaborate?

As an total aside, my family member called my disabled child the R word, and I was shot down just relaying the incident. No one gets to be more offended about a disablist slur than someone in the disabled community. Likewise, for racist slurs, you don’t get to decide if it offends.

Damned if you do say the full word, damned if you don't.

No. You just don’t say it and then you’re fine. HTH.

The issue really is the scale of the reaction.
There'd have been no issues if they'd given him a formal written warning.
Instead, they not only choose to fire him but to dig their heels in resulting in the remedy judgement panel stating that the claimant had been victimised.... in the Bank refusing to even give him his job back despite the ruling.

If you want to know what the training actually said I've posted the ruling upthread. There's also this
https://thecritic.co.uk/an-800000-lesson-in-how-not-to-do-diversity-training/

Searching the quotes will find you the actual legal documents

But you’re showing why this training is necessary surely by saying you think its content is “racist” 🤣

Bet you talk about snowflakes, the world’s gone mad, everything’s PC, could start playing bingo with your thread…

“Virtue signalling” joins other right-wing slurs like libtards, bleeding hearts, snowflakes, and social justice warriors.
It is a cousin of accusations of political correctness. In their apparent sermonising and moral outrage against racism, sexual harassment, climate change and more, progressives are viewed as emotional and weak, or accused of being sanctimonious.
Ironically, wielding the term sometimes serves as virtue signalling in itself. By calling out virtue signalling, the speaker publicly claims the moral high ground.

No, it doesn't help at all actually. When seeing discussions on here, I've seen people say have the courage to use the full word, when illustrating a point about racism. So don't come at me with that shit. You've completely ignored what I said to suit your point.

Using the full N word amongst white people in a safe space is that what you think. He didn't think that white people in that room might have black family members. I am mortified that you feel sorry for him.

Presumably if you are quietly calling a friend a fuckwit in the queue in Lloyds you would do so at a volume unlikely to offend those around you?

Similar would surely apply to friendly banter between two black people, but using the N word instead of fuckwit.

As in, if it’s loud enough to cause offence to others, then it probably shouldn’t be happening in a bank. Regardless of it’s fuckwit or the N word.