Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

MN threads on racism always end up the same. People falling over themselves to explain to people of colour why stuff isn’t racist. 🤷🏼‍♀️

This poster seems quite keen 🤷🏼‍♀️

AnonnyMouseDave · Yesterday 13:11

I am not racist and I want the right to use the same words as black people as a matter of principle and so that I can use the N-word when conversing about the n-word.

What's the legal definition of racism? Tell us how anybody has been racist.

@HoneyNuts I'm quite keen? You mean I'm not complying with you? Get a big bloody grip.

Don’t panic.

if you look carefully I was quoting someone else, AnonnyMouseDave.

So that poster is saying that the word, if not abolished, should be free from legal interference if it's used with no racist intent. For instance, in this case. The only reason you don't like the direction of this thread is that it's not going your way. Stop race baiting. The word should not be used by nobody.

Don't panic. I'm sure this thread will be deleted soon. You will have your wish.

‘The word should not be used by nobody’

So it should be used by everybody?

Is ‘race-baiting’ the latest ‘in’ phrase used by people who have got bored of using the term, ‘race card’ to minimise racism? Or do you like to alternate?

I have to say I am actually not bothered if the thread is deleted or not. It doesn’t make much difference. The posters are still who they are 🤷🏼‍♀️ They and their views don’t disappear with the thread.

She wasn't talking about you she quoted another poster if you bothered to read it.

My question to this though is always why?

Why do you want the right to say a word that you know others are deeply hurt and upset by even in a conversation about said word?

What are you gaining by having the freedom to use it in any context?

Also, if you know that people are upset by hearing it (even in a conversation about the word) and you still use it then surely that makes the use of the word intentional. I have never met a white person in my life who didn’t know them saying that word would cause offence.

Free speech is an important principle. Clearly people disagree about how important it is compared to other things, but I am very wary of banning words because they offend people and I consider taking away a person’s freedom of speech, in general, to be worse than offending them.

What happens when a group of people start finding the word ‘woman’ offensive and insist that it is not used in the workplace? How about if some people feel that the concept of God is offensive and shouldn’t be allowed? Who decides what is ok and when?

You have to be careful when you ban things because you don’t just erase a few dodgy words from a workplace, you start making people wary. A bit of that is probably a good thing, but too much fosters hostility between groups and stifles creativity. It creates a culture of judgment and accusation. It is clear to me that where language is used to insult others, that is beyond the pale in the workplace. I believe anything else should be allowed. In particular, I don’t think the feelings of the hearer are how we should judge what is ok. I think the intentions of the sayer are what matters.

I think the history of the word is everything in this context.

I agree with the ‘a bit is a good thing’ and I think most reasonable people would say that the use of that word particularly falls under that umbrella.

The word woman has never been used to kill, demonise and enslave people so for me context is everything.

Surely not everything can be protected by the freedom of speech school of thought. If our right to speak freely is more important than the feelings of the listener should this extend to other things? Is my right to express myself sexually more important than someone else’s right to feel comfortable? Or my right to bear arms (if I were American) more important than someone’s right to feel safe?

@Bex5490 👏👏👏👏

I agree that context is important and free speech is never allowed without any restrictions at all. I would also agree that it’s an offensive word. I just come down on the side of allowing use of an offensive word in a discussion about the word itself. I wouldn’t be in favour of people being allowed to use it willy nilly in the workplace.

In my view things like sexual activity and carrying weapons have to be treated differently from speech, because there is a different level of potential harm.

I just think that the dangerous division you described before that can lead to things like war, dehumanisation, slavery etc. Comes from somewhere…

If in a discussion on race a white person used that word and the general consensus in the room was that it was acceptable for him/ her to do so, I (along with most black people) would feel instantly alienated, separate, and other from that group and as you said where does that division leave us? Not in a good place.

Yes absolutely, division is to be avoided. My view is that you avoid it by not taking offence where no offence is meant. Where people are being sly and slipping in nasty words to make us uncomfortable, that’s not on. Where they are talking about a word and what it means, they’re not hurting us. But I don’t subscribe to ideas like micro aggressions either. My experience of racism in my family is that the people who have been happiest in life have been the ones who haven’t fixated on their victimhood.

I also think that there are many words with a horrible history and I don’t want to spend my life worrying about which are sayable and which aren’t. Let them all be sayable with the right intention.

Are you somebody that is likely to experience micro aggression? If not, isn’t that like a man saying that they don’t subscribe to the ideas of misogyny?

I don’t feel like I’m fixating on my victimhood to not want to hear that word ever again. And unless someone lives under a rock, anyone that uses it knows the offence that it causes which therefore to me renders its use as intentional.

Although I do feel like these threads always suck me into a conversation with no real conclusion. You see my right to feel upset by that word as less significant than your right to use it and we won’t ever agree on that. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Yes I do experience micro aggressions, but they mostly don’t bother me and I don’t like being told they should.

No, we won’t agree but that’s ok :)

A thread on racism? I thought this was a thread on an employee wrongfully being sacked.

And not everyone agrees he was wrongfully sacked or there wasn’t a racist undertone to him using the n word

that’s why people post a topic on AIBU they know not everyone will agree

Gotcha. So the OP is being perfectly reasonable, in that case 👍