Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

I believe that the n word is deeply offensive for historical reasons and in an ideal world no black or white person would ever utter it again.

My position is based on a lot of knowledge and thinking. If you are aware of an article which explains how having words that one race can use freely and casually whilst white people are destroyed for using maintains and enhances racial harmony then I will read it. If you can show me an article that explains the benefit of white people not being able to say a word in the context of them learning about how and why the word is so offensive then I will read it.

Ffs

Nationality is covered along with race in the Equality Act. Not a grey area at all
Funny you should say that because there was a debate about race on MN a year or so ago when offensive words/phrases about nationality were raised and the consensus on MN was that it wasn't the same at all.

So if someone in a team that included a French person were to use the word 'shit' followed by 'excuse my French', would it be appropriate to discipline them or worse, sack them?

..and there we have it. The hypocrisy in action.

Your privilege shows and that's a shame. My neighbour's first words after hello was I am glad you don't play that music. White women only have to deal with misogyny.

What's going on in Israel and Palestine is a tragedy and I can't see it getting better anytime soon.

Don't know who said that. IT's not.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/4

Don't be stupid.

Ah, my privilege, another assumption.

Imagine thinking that ‘gammon’ is as terrible as the n-word.

Unbelievable it’s 2024 and the hill some white people are still willing to die on is being able to freely say the n-word.

You're not racist, you just want the "right" to use the n word.

Fuck off.

how do you think it makes a stupid racist feel to be told he cannot use a word whilst he listens to rappers use it constantly on mainstream radio? Do you think he is likely to become even more angry and racist? I do

Who cares what stupid racists think? You apparently.

Voltaire said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". The whole point of free speech is that it includes things you don’t like. It’s a matter of principle.

I’m not advocating free speech as an absolute in all contexts, but in the case where a person uses a word in a discussion about a word, it is oppressive and totalitarian to ban the word.

I don’t think anyone on this thread has advocated for the right of white people to use the n-word with abandon.

He’s shown the system up for being total nonsense. The only reason he’s got a huge payout is because of the absurdity of the matter.

I think the pay out is because of disability discrimination, the refusal to re-employ him, the liklihood that he may now be out of work for the rest of what should be his working life (about 6 or 7 years?) and the shortfall to his pension caused by that.

As is entirely right when a tribunal finds that you have been a) unfairly dismissed and b) unfairly not allowed to resume your employment and c) subject to disability discrimination.

For those making a meal out of his (stupid) claim that mc middle aged white men are bottom of the pile, and his claim for discrimination on those grounds, hang on to your hats! the tribunal didn't find in his favour.

Imagine seeing things said that haven't been said. The man, in this case, did not have racist intentions but do not let that stop you from stirring. He didn't freely say it, he was encouraged to by the trainer, of all people. Also, if you don't see any problem with the word gammon, used to be derogatory, then that's on you but don't get on your high horse and pick and choose.

All those who really want to say it, what do you think it's gonna bring to your life or the life of others around you?

Best ask the trainer that question.

Can you name / quote the white people on this thread who are "willing to die on the 'freely saying the n-word' hill"?

Gammon is not racist at all, let alone as terrible as the N word. Gammon is an insult at a mindset, and it is white people objecting to that mindset most of all. The mindset is linked to racism, and thus it's pretty hard (but not impossible) for a black person to be a gammon. When white people slag off other white people for their views this is not racist.

Article???????????

I care what stupid racists think because the more we understand them the more we might be able to reduce the negative harms their racism causes, and maybe we can even make them less racist.

It doesn’t bring anything to my life in itself, but being banned from saying anything takes something away from me. If you’re going to take away my freedom, that should be a discussion.

At present, our legal system runs along the lines that freedom of speech is important (though not absolute in all contexts). We cannot be arrested for offending people. Do you think using the n-word should be a criminal offence?

It's ALL about the meaning, every last syllable & every time it's spoken by someone who isn't black & every single one of us knows that! I couldn't say it alone to myself (in what possible context would I use it?!), I don't want to. It's a disgusting & repellent word.

Courts/factfinding etc

• do you think the original employment tribunal judge was wrong to use the full words when quoting what Carl said?
• do you think Lloyds Bank were wrong when setting out the disciplinary situations for using the whole words rather than an euphemism?
• do you really think courts say 'n word' when it comes up in cases involving racial abuse etc? I've worked in courts and sometimes people feel reluctant to use 'bad' words but it's essential to have clarity.

Literature and the arts
If I were to write a book/play about how black slaves were treated in the USA, then sanitising it by moderating language would surely be misleading and minimises the hell that slaves went through.

Likewise for existing literature. A teenager who finds themselves reading a book aloud to the class and sees the word coming up has a split second decision to make, and saying the word doesn't make then racist or that they share the sentiments behind it.

It's all a bit 'he who shall not be named' for me personally. It's an offensive word that I'd not choose to use but wouldn't have a problem in the situations above etc. I wouldn't relish it but wouldn't lose any sleep over it either, especially if I'm just repeating someone else's words.

If the intention is that the word will be lost to history, do it cash never again be used as a slur, then it needs to be banned from use by everyone. It's continued use by rap and by some black people does ensure it stays in the known vocabulary of people in a way it wouldn't if no one used it. Basically, it's never going to be relegated to the history books as an offensive historical racial slur if it's still used.

I am not racist and I want the right to use the same words as black people as a matter of principle and so that I can use the N-word when conversing about the n-word.

Will nobody think of the rights of white men? 😓

Academic works, essays - if you have anything that covers those issues in poem form I'll consider that too.

You actually do get to pick and choose, based on accepted definitions of what constitutes racism. You can't just be affronted that a derogatory term, which does generally fit a particular demographic, upsets you.

If you're worried and you want to check if you are gammony, look in the mirror while reading the word aloud. If you see a red glow starting, you're probably gammon.

Do you think using the n-word should be a criminal offence?

No, but sackable, certainly

Always? Or only if you white? What if you you disability gives you a medical excuse for having used it in a very specific and not at all offensive context?