Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

I think think they would be expected to censor it - however I do not think this would be fair to expect unless you had talked to them at the start and explained what you want them to do when they come to the word. And if I was a pupil in the class no way would I volunteer to read as the chance of reading it by mistake would be too awful. So I think the teacher needs to be the reader, really.

It's not clear though is it? I've worked in many offices and I've never heard black colleagues call eachother the N-word.

So if he asked that question I'd be wondering what word he was talking about.

But those rappers use that word to eachother, they're not using it to white people. So why would white people feel left out?

White people have plenty of their own pejorative terms for each other (red neck, chav, etc).

My history is rusty fair enough. We will leave out the commonwealth then shall we and what happened there. I could go on forever about what happened and why you can't say that word and what it means. It doesn't matter what context you want to use it in don't.

This word is relatively unique. The most affective swear words are effective not because of their meaning but their sound.

ShiT
CunT
FUCK
WANKer
TWaT

The meaning is irrelevant, it's the structure of the word that makes it powerful (& satisfying!!)

The most similar sounding word we use in English in terms of 'mouth feel' is

bugger

which is rarely if ever used as an insult, it's affectionate despite having a much darker meaning. It's the sound that makes it cutesy.

So the N word should fall into a similar category if you look at it in the same way we use other offensive words - but it doesn't.

It's ALL about the meaning, every last syllable & every time it's spoken by someone who isn't black & every single one of us knows that! I couldn't say it alone to myself (in what possible context would I use it?!), I don't want to. It's a disgusting & repellent word.

I'm by no means a SJW by today's standards, neither could I be called 'woke' by the same measure, but this word crosses every boundary I was brought up with & for very good reason.

It's STILL used as an insult, it's still a symbol of racism. When that stops, and it's just a bunch of letters then sure, let's revisit this.

...and THIS is why this became a sacking issue. People like you, assuming way way too much. Luckily, his compensation will put things right for him. I really hope you're not a manager.

@Caerulea

It's ALL about the meaning, every last syllable & every time it's spoken by someone who isn't black & every single one of us knows that! I couldn't say it alone to myself (in what possible context would I use it?!), I don't want to. It's a disgusting & repellent word.

Very true.

Try saying it alone in a room, or perhaps in your head. It’s like that philosophical question about a tree falling in the woods. If you say an offensive word when there is no one there to be offended, is it still offensive?

@Jungleballs Of course you can say it in an empty room, you could probably even use it with like minded individuals and nobody would be none the wiser.

But I set better standards for myself, why should I corrupt my soul by saying it? I've been called a P####, it's awful, it makes you distrust everyone, it makes you want to hide from the world.

Why on earth do you assume white people feel left out? How do you feel about the racist term, gammon, do you have a problem with that?

Because the poster said 'how do you think it makes a stupid racist feel to be told he cannot use a word whilst he listens to rappers use it constantly on mainstream radio?'

And no, I wouldn't call anyone a gammon.

Glad you feel that way because I've seen plenty of people who use that word and laughably try to say its not racist.

He should not have said the word. Even in context
Why, though? What's the ultimate rule, be it social, psychological, legal that means it's totally unacceptable to the point of doing so becoming life changing when the intention behind it's use was to be better educated and understanding.

Why is our society gradually focusing more on the semantic of a word than the meaning used behind it?

The theory of communication is that semantics is actually the least important part of communication. Non verbal behaviour has the biggest impact, than tone of voice etc ..and then the word itself. It takes no sense!

If I were to say the N word in the context of better understanding why it is offending, using non visual clue that indicates curiosity and interest, with a calm, non judgemental voice, is this really such a big massive no no compared to talking about my black neighbour person in an aggressive condensing way but referring to them as a person of colour?

I really feel we've lost all perspective of what offensiveness is all about!

Gammon is different, again. Not a good comparison cos it's for a subset of white men & can even be misapplied based on personal judgement. It's more of a moralistic or political term.

The N Word applies to every single black person, there's no nuance, no 'oh but you called him that but he isn't' as could happen with gammon cos gammon is a judgement on someones ideology (which is fluid) not their literal existance (which is not).

Agree, too many white people get offended on behalf of black people and just end up being patronising. Maybe they should take their own advice and quit commentating on things they know naff all about.

I don't use that word either because it's generally deployed snobbishly but it's not an equivalent word to what's being discussed, there isn't the history, there isn't the imbalance, there isn't the everything that gives n-word it's impact.

I see gammon as generally classist rather than racist

If gammon is pertaining to one's skin colour, its racist. Imo

It's referring to someone being red faced with (implied impotent) rage. The idea of that well precedes the words current usage

"Reactionary affluent white men are not being harassed by police officers, disproportionately driven into poverty and precarious work, systematically underrepresented in political and public life, or threatened with deportation. “Gammon” is punching up in a way that, say, “chavs” is punching down. That rightwingers are now pushing the use of the word “gammon” as racism is age-old example of how the privileged crave a sense of persecution, that they can target genuinely oppressed minorities while claiming they are the real victims."
No, ‘gammon’ is not a racial slur. Now let’s change the conversation | Owen Jones | The Guardian

Very well said.

You sound confident ask me about me and my family and what we have gone through and I will tell you. Please don't make assumptions ask me a question and I will answer it the best I can.

He could've said 'the n word'.
Taking 5 days off to recover is just a joke.

Hmmmm....I see completely a different story when it comes to policing the marches, every Saturday. Also. If you excuse the term gammon, you are a hypocrite. It's not as deep as you are trying to make it to be. As for quoting Owen Jones with his disgusting stance on Hamas rapes, please.

No not really. Why don't you educate yourself on the history and dig deep and then come back to me with how you feel.

Given gammon tends to be used by educated whites to refer to lower status whites they see as thick and inferior that is a perfectly reasonable

As a white person I certainly don't think I am being racist when I call someone a gammon (not that I tend to do that, but I might occasionally use the word on twitter in response to a trolling racist).

Why would it corrupt your soul if you say it?

What happens if you just say it, no context? Does a word mean anything if it’s just spoken with no context at all? If I’m just saying the word exists, does that taint me somehow?

I disagree that any word can do this just by itself. Of course someone calling you a word as an insult, that can taint you because of the intention and attitude of the speaker.

I remember having a discussion about the Nazis at university - they had some particularly vile words and imagery that they used about Jews and other groups. We were taught the terms and shown the images. We discussed them dispassionately. It was very sad, but no one was using the terminology in a racist way and no one was offended.

How convenient.