Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

That's shit. I hope those people got what they deserved.

However if you had read the judgements you would have a better understanding of the scenario.

FWIW I don't think he should have used the word. The trainer isn't right for the job. The outcome of it all seems reasonable

Show me an example of that.

So people outside of a group, aren't meant to say a word pertaining to that group, in training sessions? 🤔 best if participants just mime and do guess what I'm trying to say.

No, but nor find he deserve to be fired.

Tell me why you cringed at my post. Then you will find your answer.

I didn't complain. I did tell each one at the time to make ensure they didn't say it in my presence again.

My husband complained both time and made grievances and in both cases ended up leaving not long after when they weren't investigated properly/fobbed off.

Words aren't in themselves racist, it's the intention. Having grown up on Enid blyton and in an entirely white area, I remember being surprised to find that Golliwogs were anything to do with black people or a racial slur as in the books they are just toys and there are good and bad ones. Robinson's jam were still giving them out well into the 90s. Similarly with the n word, it didn't come with any negative connotation in the EB books. Of course I understand that although reading these words won't make a child a racist, they need to be removed from kids books for the sake of any children, black or white, who do know the context behind the words. That is not in doubt. There's now increased awareness and we are getting a lot of influence from the US via the internet and if course there's no going back now we know what we know. But still, removal of these words does not stop the underlying intention and prejudice. We have huge problems in this country with the racist nature of our police force for example. In the US it's far worse with white police officers still killing innocent black people with impunity. Banning certain words does absolutely nothing to improve this and probably just distracts attention away from doing something more useful.

They're there running a course about racism. They had to take time off because someone asked a question about to deal with colleagues who use the N word. If they can't handle hearing that word, to the point of needing 5 days off work, then why are they in a job where there's a good chance someone may ask about use of that word???

He was asking a question about how to deal with people using this word in his branch!!!! At training about racism! He wasn't using the word at anyone, describing anyone that way etc. etc.

Perfectly put!

@britneyisnotokay thanks for replying. Sorry your dh got such a shit response to his grievances. You'd like to think the people at least learned something from it but I wouldn't hold my breath.

'Chances are...?' I can't think of any judge that would agree with you on that one. Hence the large pay out.

If this is true I don't know how they had a leg to stand on. He actively tried to avoid using the word then was urged to use it?

He didn't need to use the full N-word, did he?

"he thought he was in a safe place to do so."
I want to think when I'm at work, I'm expecting that I'm in a safe place not to hear a colleague use that word. No matter the context.

It seems he was awarded the money for being unfairly sacked not because on reflection they decided he was ok to use the N word in full. He should have just said the N word not the whole word. He knows that, we all do. Being told you're in a safe space to talk about your feelings or experiences is just that. It's not to use racial slurs, offensive language or to bully people. It just means you can mention things that you might not feel comfortable talking about in front of peers. The trainer needing 5 days off to recover from the situation was a bit pathetic. Sounds like she needs to go on her own training course.

And this

The trainer was apparently the one who pushed him into using it.

I don’t agree that books should be censored. They are products of their time and children are capable of understanding that. Children’s books in the past often have a lot of sexism. That’s fine, if your child is bothered just explain that those attitudes were the norm at the time. Don’t teach them to be a victim.

I do wonder how the trainer would have handled the bus journey my kids get to school in South London where their black mates routinely call each other that word. He/she would have had to take the year off after one journey at school time. All the boys, of any racial background, say it's the word that rhymes with ligga and that it is spelt like that, as from American rap and that it is therefore fine. Black/mixed race boys use it as a friendly greeting. So one gets on the bus further along and someone will say 'Hey n#, What's up, or Hey my n# or my dude, come sit with me' They laugh about it with my son who is white that they can call each other that but he can't call them that and they have semi-philosophical discussions about can they say it to him and can their mate who is Asian say it to anybody etc etc. It's all good natured and none of then seem at all bothered about usage of this word in present times. My son's mate who is black mixed race told me in the car once when I was giving them a lift that they all think adults make a stupid fuss about that word. They're a tight knit group of friends in year 11 from all different racial backgrounds including Chinese, Indian and Pakistani as well as black and white British and mixed race and mixed race white/asian. As is pretty standard for friendship groups in London/cities now I think.

The school has to do an assembly about it every year for the incoming year 7s to explain that the black and mixed race boys can use it (do black girls use it? Not sure I've ever heard this) without contravening any school rule but white boys can't and will be suspended if heard using it. Every year someone puts their hand up and says I'm Indian/brown/Asian/Chinese can I use it? And they get shushed and told to stop being difficult etc.

He possibly is a closet racist but it was a valid question I think. I'm not sure really what to think of this but I can confidently say that young boys/men of any racial background in London are perfectly happy to use/not use the word according to their racial background and think it's a silly fuss about a perfectly fine word, albeit one which has a weird usage restriction. If you ask them about that they say slavery, innit, so it's fair enough we/they can use it now. language evolves I guess and they all still know the historical context I think. It's a tough one as older people have a different association of course and that can't be overlooked. There is a similar thing with the P word and the Asian boys say they are reclaiming it and are fine with it but that their Dad hates that word etc.

Not sure why the connected OP wants an apology though, the guy got half a million quid to retire on!

To reclaim something is to have owned it. That argument is nonsense anyway.

Accusing people of ‘crying racism’ is objectionable behaviour. Usually done by people who have little experience of being a black person with direct experience of racism. It minimises victims’ experiences.

Now you go.

But you’ve used the actual words in order to talk about the words you shouldn’t use, rather than the f-word or the d-word. Which is what this man did; he was talking about a word you shouldn’t use. He didn’t call anyone a n***.

With hindsight, I’m sure we can all agree it would have been better to have said the n-word. However as the trainer didn’t understand his original question, I guess he probably just blurted out the word he was actually talking about. Especially as it was a ‘safe place’ to say what you want.

ln talking about a ‘safe space’ the trainer was obviously reading from the script, she didn’t really mean it. Her emotional reaction was being herself. Not very professional; she was definitely in the wrong job.

Not my argument. 15 year old boy's argument.

Point being people who are customer facing are likely to hear these words and so it was a valid question to ask at a trading course.

Training course

Not really. The news articles make it sound that way, but the ruling reads slightly differently.

It was hardly like he used the term ‘the n word’ and she said she didn’t understand and asked him to clarify. I think the original question was probably vague and poorly formulated because of the dyslexia and the trainer asked him to clarify further. I don’t think most people would then expect someone to come out with the word in full rather than refer to it as the ‘n word’ or ‘ racist term beginning with ‘n’. Or any other euphemism.