Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

The DEI DVD we were all issued at work once with had an error in the subtitles that meant where a worker was describing themselves as a "bit of a mongrel" due to having a mixed ethnic origin, the word used in the subtitles was the old and now discredited term for people with Downs syndrome.

I hope the trainer never watches Pulp Fiction, they'd need to go on long term sick leave.

I'm talking about people who see these reports, then get invited at their place of work to EDI training.

This trainer (aside of all of the other stuff going on here) beings all training into question and dusrepute.

No it isn’t. It was making a point on the OP’s ridiculous stance about D&I training. S/he could be 21 for all I know - but the attitudes they display are old-fashioned and whether they are close to retirement or just starting out, they need to modernise their outlook or leave the institution.

I don’t understand why he said the word - why not the ‘n’ word? Everyone knows what that means. Idk about the case, but maybe he had ‘previous’ in his HR record for racist slurs (doesn’t always have to be against black people) and this was the last straw.
I would think using the word as he did would be ignorance at best, racism at worst, or maybe he didn’t engage brain before speaking?
Five days off for the trainer is also bonkers in that one scenario (as they weren’t ‘called’ that word), but maybe it brought up issues from when they were young or something and they had a mental health episode?

For goodness sake...

Context is everything here.

The employee asked a question in what should have been a safe training space meant to educate people about how to avoid racist behaviour and language.

It is likely the trainer told people to ask any questions they might have. Such a topic is bound to lead to some unpleasant examples of racist language/behaviour being given.

It should not be a politically correct exercise where the trainer is looking to take offence at any opportunity. And the trainer needed 5 days to recover? to me that is complete bullshit and fishing for compensation.

A professional reply should have been to say that this word should not be used and is offensive and explain why. That's what educating means.

This word is routinely used in rap music and indeed some black people use it to refer to each other. I can see why someone would question how to deal with customers who do this.

It is absolutely right that he was awarded compensation.

I think the problem is that 'cancel culture' means that some people can no longer grasp the concept that to change someone perspective and educate them you have to engage with them and challenge their unpleasant beliefs and statement in a rational manner.

I know it is easier to just want to silence someone and claim you are traumatised to get something out of it but it simply does not work. Instead you need to engage and be able to demonstrate why they are wrong.

Tbh he should be sacked. Why did he need to say the word? Why couldn’t he say ‘how should I respond if my black colleagues are using words that are conventionally understood to be slurs?’ without actually saying it?

If you read the report, that is pretty much what he did say. The trainer then said she didn’t understand and asked him to clarify. It is then that, instead of using the N word, he clarified by saying the word in full.

Because it kind of feels that we are automatically racist just by being white. I've seen discussions where that's been the suggestion on here. Great debates that descend into a bun fight because the trope is we should all just accept we are racist by accident of being white and continuously apologise for it just in case.

He asked a question.

If it's so offensive no one should use it.

What example does it set for it to be used in raps or how black people interact with each other? That it's somehow fine to be used by the black community. But if it's used even in this context, by anyone else and it's automatically the worst crime ever?

As for 5 days off, did she need smelling salts as well? Christ.

She needs sacking. He needs his job back, a raise and an apology.

And all incidents like this do is heighten ill feeling, division and dilute actual cases of racism.

‘This topic isn't just about the employee using a bad word. It's a wider issue.’

mmm, it really is about the employee - the Tory councillor, world has gone woke, white men are the minority now etc - using a racial slur though. Isn’t it?
I know blokes who get their backs up about - oh it’s okay for a black guy to say it but not me - and they are all, I think it’s fair to say, the kind of arseholes that you absolutely would not like to be sat next to at a work dinner…

The DEI DVD we were all issued at work once with had an error in the subtitles that meant where a worker was describing themselves as a "bit of a mongrel" due to having a mixed ethnic origin, the word used in the subtitles was the old and now discredited term for people with Downs syndrome

You can say Mongol - that's the correct term for people from Mongolia.

He believes white middle aged men are at the bottom. I’ve only ever heard racist people come out with shit like that.

He should have said “the n word”, not used the actual term. He’s thick at best but based on his other comment, I think he’s probably racist.

At least people won’t have to work with him now. He can spend his time with his friends who also all believe that white middle aged men are at the bottom of everything. 🧐 Now there’s a group I wouldn’t want anything to do with. Twats. I imagine a lot of people will stay away from him, he might have got a payout but he’s embarrassed himself and shown himself for what he is.

No, not really. Not appropriate in a workplace setting.

I will say though, he could have warned them before, he didn't need to wait to so this person about it

I see the race baiters have been out. Nothing will ever change while these people want to highlight division. There is nothing that this bloke said or did that was racist. The trainer knew what she was doing. Give it a rest with crying racism just for the sake of it and save it for when it is happening.

I think there needs to be a cultural reassertion of the fact that critical race theory is a theory, not a fact. Not everyone agrees with it and if you believe in pluralistic democracy you will applaud that. If you believe in totalitarianism that’s a separate discussion. So:

• I don’t agree in a hierarchy of oppression. I don’t think him being a white man means we can make assumptions about his life experience or that he is fair game for sneering.
• I don’t think there is a clear hierarchy of offensiveness with the word in question at the top of the tree. Clearly it is offensive, but it is not a magical incantation that does something if said in full (as a pp said, like Voldemort!)
• I don’t agree that the perception of the hearer is more important than the intent of the sayer.
• Any word should be sayable: we’re not children or puritans, if we’re talking about how a word is used we should be able to say the word. Saying ‘the n-word’ is literally virtue signalling. We all know what the word is but in not using it I am signalling that I understand it is offensive. Virtue signalling should not be compelled if you believe in free speech.
• Clearly context is important: if I’m invited to training on anti-racism, I expect a discussion of terminology. I don’t expect to be invited to training and then told I have to agree with everything with no questions or discussion. That is totalitarian.

For the people saying ‘why would you need to use it?’ My answer is that I don’t think any word should ever be absolutely banned in a democracy. This means context matters.

He's racist for having that opinion? Who has he offended?Exactly what I mean by People throwing the R word about like confetti.

I wouldn't call a dyslexic person "thick", personally, people with dyslexia have been hearing that since they were children.
While he may well have held the "woe is me for being a white man" views before the incident, it would hardly be surprising if the experience of being sacked for making the comment had an impact on his views and made him feel a victim.
Attacking people doesn't generally help with the process of educating them.

👏 applause

To your last point - the judgment was very clear that context matters and that Lloyds was at fault for not understanding this. People here saying the context is irrelevant clearly didn’t bother to read the full judgment, or any of the reports on it which make this very clear. No doubt, though, even if they did, they would simply complain that they disagree with the judgment anyway.

The amount of people that have tried this shit with me. Any chance to use the word even if just to say someone else said it.

I am a black woman who has worked in professional settings. Interesting no one has ever called me a N but I've had at least 5 colleagues say it in my presence in the context of oh well hip artists use it or oh something happened and someone said N. But they always say the word yet I don't.

Same has happened to my husband. I haven't read the article but I don't care about the context I'm glad he was sacked and I hope it happens to a lot more people so they too can be made an example of.

‘Give it a rest with crying racism just for the sake of it and save it for when it is happening.’

Cringeing for you. Do you also say ‘race card’?

They won't let common sense and legal reasoning get in their way of sneering at people. They thrive on division.

He didn't call anyone anything, he asked a question to a race trainer.

I'm cringing for you for being a race baiter.

Yes but he didn't have to say the word to ask the question ffs

Of course your colleagues should not have spoken like that in your presence! (Or out of it) Did you complain, or did you not think it would do any good?
However is it not a little different if you're running a training session with the aim of educating people?
editing to see I was replying to Britney