Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

Just don't say the "n" word, it's not hard. There's no reason to say it even in training, just say "n" word.

But this is exactly what he did, and the trainer then asked for an example of such a word.

It REALLY isn’t that hard to not say it. Just don’t. Just as you wouldn’t ( I hope) call a gay woman a ‘dyke’ even in ‘training’ or a gay man a ‘faggot’.
There are some words that groups have ‘reclaimed’ that have been used as slurs against them but if you aren’t in that group, don’t use them.

Why couldn’t he say ‘how should I respond if my black colleagues are using words that are conventionally understood to be slurs?’ without actually saying it?

That is what he did say. The instructor claimed not to understand what he meant.

Because all it does is call out our differences under the guise of us all being equal.
It the same with training on religious beliefs, sexuality, gender or whatever they come up with.
We are all the same/equal/bring your whole self to work. Unless we say otherwise.
In reality, these courses and constant conversations are just reminders that we are all individual and shouldn't be pigeonholed. We are all different. And that's ok.
If anyone dares to use critical thinking, question anything, you are reported. So in reality, you absolutely cannot bring your whole self to work.

But also, it's a bank. We just want to get on with our work. It's numbers. Let's get on with our work.

Then he should have said ‘it’s not a word I’m comfortable using’ as a decent person would. I don’t actually blame the trainer for the fact that she didn’t expect someone to actually blurt out the n word - who these days doesn’t realise that it’s totally unacceptable?

There are people who will do whatever they can to excuse racists, but why? They don’t deserve it.

I’ve never seen saying the n word described as ‘critical thinking’ before.

‘I've always declined this sort of training.’
I bet you have OP, sorry you find DE&I ‘exhausting’.
But as you have the option not to do it, then so what?
I have to do all sorts of mandatory training at work that notes the tits off me, but Injust crack on. I would mind a DE&I one just to change it up a bit…
I can’t believe a bank who have thousands of staff in customer facing roles feel the need to make sure those staff have appropriate training for dealing with customers. What utter, utter bastards.

But this is exactly what he did, and the trainer then asked for an example of such a word.

And his answer should have been ‘the n word’, not to say it in full.

Despite him claiming to believe that white middle aged men are at the bottom of everything, I think it’s likely he said what he did because he thought he could get away with it, precisely because he has the privilege of being a white middle aged man who had worked at the bank for years and is at the top. People rarely stand up to them.

except that a) she's an EDI trainer and b) she said "safe space, ok to make mistakes" and c) launched into a tirade rather than calmly listening to his apology and then possibly telling him he was muted for the rest of the session.

TBH she lost a massive opportunity there to show the rest of the trainees how to cope with the kind of racism that he was both talking about AND displaying.

How is he at the top? As banks come, he is as low in the hierarchy as he could be. A payment system support clerk on 50K.

i firmly believe in this kind of training. It definitely sorts the wheat from the chaff, and a good trainer would have identified this participant (and noticed other participents' reactions to him) as someone in need of further training.

The bank would have facilitated this - win-win for her company and people who need training.

The problem is the more we see things like this in the news, the more people DO attend these trainings to tick the boxes, don't listen, don't participate and don't learn anything. The only people who come out of it with anything positive are the training companies earning money.

‘If anyone dares to use critical thinking, ‘

ah, got you OP. So saying ‘n*er’ when questioning why you can’t when all the black people can is ‘critical thinking’ ?
Because to me it’s either ignorance, stupidity or baiting the trainer.

My 10 year old can tell you why they can’t say the n word when rappers can, or why white people shouldn’t.
And BTW, NONE of my black friends use that word. Ever. Not in any context.

I don’t think you can accuse this bloke of not participating by the sounds of it.

So in reality, you absolutely cannot bring your whole self to work.

If someone’s whole self includes being racist then yes, they need to at least leave that cunty part at home.

No company really wants workers to bring their whole selves to work, it’s just more corporate bollock speak.

Where have I said that critical thinking is using the N word.

Critical thinking in general for anything. They make it very difficult to question anything.
Some of you need to read the posts before responding. Take your time.

This topic isn't just about the employee using a bad word. It's a wider issue.
I posted to get a discussion going. Some of you are discussing.
Some of you are throwing insults when there is no need.

I'm leaving now to do some banking 😆

“I don’t think he should have been dismissed, but disciplinary action should have been taken. His original question was vague & it’s no wonder the trainer was furious - “getting things wrong” means (for example) saying “coloured” or “half-caste” instead of “black” or “mixed race/heritage”. Not coming out with a word that’s been universally understood to be unacceptable for decades - even racists know it’s not considered ok, they just don’t care. Alarming that his colleagues hadn’t the wit, while being shocked at his using the word, to think that it clearly fell without the parameters of the expected errors in their “safe space”.

As for his claim it was due to his dyslexia… I’d love to read the medical evidence that was provided. Because I suspect the reason that Lloyd’s considered appealing (then decided against) was that he could not, in fact, evidence any such thing; but - rightly - with [certain] disabilities, Tribunals will err on the side of caution. So if I worked with him & right after he said that had a focal seizure that made it look like I’d just smacked him one - or several if he didn’t shift - & they fired me for thumping the racist (leaving aside the fact I’d do myself more damage) I’d be able to bring a disability discrimination claim because I have focal seizures (etc etc blah) even though it’s also true my uncle is black. Proving that he was able NOT to say the n-word = effectively impossible. It’s vanishingly unlikely that dyslexia did, in fact, force him to blurt out a word he knows to be so grossly offensive he’s not allowed to say it & he (allegedly 🤨) desired guidance on what to do should he overhear it being used by black people in the workplace. Zero sympathy for Mr “It’s So Hard Being Part Of One Of The Most Privileged Groups In British Society”. Foolish of Lloyd’s not to change their minds on his appeal though: they should have realised which way a tribunal would go”

I think this must be the longest put together waffle of speculation I have ever seen. Tribunals do not “err” on the side of caution ever. Especially when they have to be able to legally justify at an appeal, taking half a million pounds from a company. They have solicitors who are trained in all aspects of law working to make sure the law is fairly upheld for all parties. His original question wasn’t vague and that’s the point. His question was so obvious that for the trainer to claim not to know what word he was talking about when he said “The N word” when they are in fact qualified in this field is nothing other than wilful misinterpretation on the trainers part. The rest of your point about them being furious over the terms “coloured etc” is absolute nonsense. This trainer would have been trained themselves in recognising all the potential politically incorrect and racist terms and trained on how to deal with them. That is their job, only someone who wasn’t qualified in how to deal with this would react with such emotion because they do not possess the tools to be able to react to them appropriately in order to teach others. There’s a reason why Lloyds haven’t appealed and that is because they are 100% guilty beyond all doubt of discrimination. Whether you think it’s vanishingly unlikely or not, a tribunal thought otherwise enough to award him an enormous amount of money.

How is he at the top? As banks come, he is as low in the hierarchy as he could be. A payment system support clerk on 50K.

In society, as a white man, he’s at the top.

So he was a racist. Quelle surprise.

I've had a lot of DEI training in my working life and incredibly have managed to never use a slur out loud in front of colleagues under the guise of asking a question. I mean, what a miracle. It's almost like it doesn't take a single thing other than some common sense not to be a twat.

I don't feel sorry for him. Boohoo, poor white men have it so hard. Jesus christ.

Shame you’re adding little to the discussion. What’s the wider issue then?

Your post is just ‘PC world gone mad’.

I think part of it comes down to being professional and behaving well in the workplace. It’s a bit like if someone at work said a very serious swear word (e.g. ct). It would look unprofessional and pretty rude if someone else repeated the full swear word rather than just say something like ‘the C word’, as most people know what that’s referring to

Agree but a verbal warning would be sufficient the first time, I think.

If someone kept using offensive words after receiving a warning, that would be different.

Anyway, I suspect the Tribunal knows a little more about this case than a bunch of MNers do.

Though his whining about being a white middle aged male, if true, paints a somewhat different picture of things. But anti-racist training should be a safe space and you should be able to ask questions without repercussions. And the trainer is pathetic and needs a new job. 5 days off work indeed.

@Horrace

I think anyone in a managerial position should know not to use that word, even if they are relaying a conversation between other colleagues. It sounds a bit like the word was used to provoke. ‘If others can use it why can’t I?’ That’s not going to combat racism.

I think the 5 days leave sounds like an overreaction, but I wonder what else happened on the course that day. The general atmosphere.
I also saw the Telegraph linked above, I don’t know if this is their slant on the incident. If so, the bias is that particular newspaper is horrendous. I shudder every time I see Telegraph linked.

Indeed. You can only bring your whole self to work if your whole self is acceptable.