To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

YABU to follow her on Social Media. She's irrelevant.

Just found an article that sums up the way I feel about her perfectly. I wouldn't want her anywhere near my family.

https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/atrocious-advice-supernanny/

@capabilityfrowns in what capacity did you/ do you work for the police? That seems an unusually dramatic account of poor home conditions coming to light. I find it hard to believe that paramedics really thought a child was dead - paramedics would be focused on giving immediate care to a very unwell child, and don't tend to "think" someone is dead- they go immediately to check if they are indeed dead.

If true, then the information you've posted here is potentially identifying for this family and completely inappropriate to be shared by someone who claims to work for the police. The family and children deserve dignity, and the law clearly states where information of this sort can be disclosed. And that absolutely isn't as gossip on a wide open public forum.

Good article, thanks. And makes the astute point that 'Jo' is more a brand created by TV companies and editors than a real person.

'If you can bear to sit through them, the nanny programs provide a fairly reliable guide for how not to raise children. They also offer an invitation to think about the pervasiveness of pop-behaviorism and our hunger for the quick fix.'

Quite often the police wont attend without prior evidence that they need to force access

Thats difficult if you havent been inside the house to have that evidence.

I dont know the details here so perhaps there could have been more pressure on this part of the process but in my experience its not as straightforward as you set out.

But I don't understand her motivation, she's saying clean your house to stop child abuse?

Only stopping child abuse stops child abuse?

Cleaning one's home will not stop children being abused.

I think she's just actually thick....

It's just yet more pressure on mums who may be struggling with babies, going to work and trying to do everything. Their houses might be dirty sometimes. Mine definitely was when my kids were little. But I was trying to do a good job of being a mammy and not spend hours and hours scrubbing.

People may interpret this very wrongly.

I think
It's actually quite a dangerous statement

I think this a middle ground between clean and living in filth and squalor. And there is also a middle ground between being a good parent and cleaning for hours and hours.

Some people really don't do the basics. And it's not ok.

Confused as to why her statement is 'dangerous' or why calling her 'thick' is necessary.

Sorry but you don't have to spend hours scrubbing. Show home standards aren't required just basic cleanliness.

Exactly. I think Jo is a counterpoint to the parents who take pride in having a dirty house and not doing their housework, and blame it on being a "hands-on parent". Providing a clean hygienic environment to live in is basic parenting and should be a high priority, especially if there are pets in the house. So many people have time to post on mumsnet and Facebook yet can't take 2 mins to run a flash wipe over their kitchen countertops 🤮

But I was trying to do a good job of being a mammy and not spend hours and hours scrubbing.

You don't need to spend "hours and hours scrubbing" to have a clean house.

@margotrose people have VERY different interpretations of 'clean'

I don't think flash wipes are hygienic and I know for a fact they're terrible for the environment. I think not doing things that will make the world worse for our kids to live in when they're older is basic parenting. So ideas of what 'hygienic' is and what 'basic parenting' is differ.

More to the point I don't think Jo whatserface is saying anything useful whatsoever. It will make absolutely not one jot of difference to anyone who really is abusing their child with neglect because their problems are way more complex than one stupid Facebook post can counter. It's just a way for her followers to agree and say 'yeah dirty cows' in a nice judgemental way that makes them feel good.

And politely refuse that cup of tea.

And politely refuse that cup of tea.

And the accompanying biscuit.

I agree but I'm at a loss as to why the social workers didn't ring police to
Accompany them to access the house

Police don’t have right of access unless there’s good reason to suggest a crime is being committed or they have a warrant. Sometimes having police with you helps move things along but if the householder refuses access the police are limited in what they can do.

I will keep my opinions about Jo Frost to myself. However, children living in a dirty, neglected home is not the number 1 sign of child abuse (as the post claims).

Often, the signs are much more subtle (a change in behaviour and so on), abuse also occurs in the most well kept homes. Sometimes abuse hides behind the veneer of cleanliness and comfort.

Many children do live in dirty, neglected homes and they are not abused. There are terrible housing conditions in this country, in which children sleep in rooms infested by mould and damp, and where overcrowding is rife.

Whilst children living in dirty and neglected homes is a good indicator of poverty, it does not always indicate abuse, and Jo should be careful about the inferences her (inaccurate) posts could make.

My DS chooses to sleep on the floor on her s Japanese futon.

Wheretheeildthingis

I'm a police officer and the media reported this widely - so no I haven't exposed anyone ! I haven't named them or said where it was .

If you don't believe these things happen then you're lucky you live in that lovely ivory tower .

@capabilityfrowns whether it was in the media or not, if you actually are a police officer, you'll know you're still not allowed to share information about cases you've been involved in.

Here's a link to the police conduct regulations - if you'd like to share which force you work for, I'll have a chat with them about whether they think one of their employees doing this is OK?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/4/schedule/2/paragraph/1n7/made#:~:text=Police%20officers%20treat%20information%20with,proper%20course%20of%20police%20duties.

I've just watched the pictures of the caravan that poor Alfie Phillips died in. Described as squalid.

I think futons are fine. I thought the problem was having mattress on the floor is it couldn’t “breathe” so moisture would settle and turn mouldy. When I had twins I put the mattress on the floor inside the bed frame but on the slats so it would be able to air.

But what Super Nanny is saying is true, a dirty house can be neglectful parenting and therefore a form of abuse. The police can remove a child from a family home if the home conditions are poor enough to pose a risk to a child.

I don’t think in a well heated/aired/insulated house that matters so much. When my son was little we put a king size mattress next to a double mattress both directly on the floor. It was only the time he was a big baby/toddler so not years and years, but we just flipped and hoovered the mattresses as you usually would and nothing went mouldy.