To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

Because, sadly, there are lots of parents out there who will argue they're not abusive because they love their kids, don't hit them and don't lock them in their rooms.

Lots of people genuinely don't understand that allowing their child to live in filth is neglectful.

bathsinkdoorandwindow

So why is she telling people to clean their house?

That's why it is confusing.

Precisely She should know better than to make ambiguous sweeping statements. But I stopped listening to her years ago. She just became too sure of herself and too outspoken. Plus the mispronunciations made me cringe, especially when she was in the States. I thought the Americans might think we all spoke like that!

I don't understand these posts.

People keep explaining that neglect is abuse (agreed) and that there is a difference between untidy and living in squalor ( also agreed).

The thing that people are confused about is that she seems to be saying that a dirty house is a sign of abuse, and telling people to clean their house so people don't think they are abusing their kids.

It's just phrased so badly and also seems to be ignoring the fact that the dirty house and the treatment of the children are two repercussions of a deeper issue. It's not as simple as "just clean your house."

Thank god I thought I was the only one 😅

But apparently not only should we be doing it, we should be doing it once a week. Blimey

Four main signs of abuse physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse and neglect. With neglect for instance a dirty home often the child does not have age appropriate toys , clothing for that season . Missed medical appointments, lots of days off school . I could list so many things which can be happening behind the scenes in messy , dirty houses

Actually if you are providing somewhere for your child to sleep, food for them to eat, and can provide washing facilities and clean clothes, it is unlikely you will be judged on how messy or dirty your house actually is.

Your friend was jealous of what your husband did for his daughter because not all men is handy 😭

Exactly.
Also I remember going to a wealthy couples' home with my approx 2yo where the mother requested I took her to play with her child same age. The mother swept my child off to another room and left her to play with her child while she sat with me over coffee. Hearing no sounds of happy playing, I soon got up to check on the children. She was not happy, saying they were fine, but I went anyway. The children were up two flights of stairs in a room where they were playing next to an old single bar open electric fire! The kind which a child can easily reach through the outer bars to touch the element.
This mother held a responsible job with Boarders in a Private School, and later took another job of responsibility in the Health Service.

In fact, after teaching in a Private School, I can attest to signs of neglect and even abuse of children from homes where there was plenty of money. he children's clothes might be clean, but it was apparent nobody was interested in them or talked to them except to shout at them. It was actually heart breaking. For some reason these children were often the loveliest to teach. I used to have Special Needs children one to one and always had bananas and a drink in my bag for those who had not eaten breakfast.

On the other hand, in State schools there were usually one or two whose clothes were smelly and unwashed, who had no PE clothes and whom the other children shunned somewhat. One Head suggested I 'accidentally' spilled some paint on one very smelly little girl's tunic, and dressed her in spare clothes sending a note of apology to her mum saying I was taking her tunic home to wash. Some parents just can't manage and the children suffer.

Just to remind everyone about the kind of parents Jo is referring to - this should really come with a trigger warning because it's not for the squeamish :

https://archive.ph/RxDCm

Fair play to Jo. She's absolutely correct. If your house is dirty (and I do not mean untidy or 'lived in') then you are neglecting your children

I vaguely remember that case; I recognised the photo of the woman.

How were they receiving £7,000 p/m in benefits? Were the children not theirs? Were they receiving money to foster the children?

In which case the blame also lies with whoever facilitated this. Those poor children should have been checked up on.

Awful.

I remember that case. Poor, poor children.

There’s a documentary on YouTube. The couple loved their son however couldn’t understand how to meet his needs . He didn’t even have a toothbrush but the fact the dog was soiling in the living room and they just put newspaper over it .

My HV advised a flooded my first as they hated the cot and would never settle. When he was on it made sure that the room was safe, and had a monitor so I could hear immediately if he stirred. A v different scenario to a mother who has had to flee violence and ends up with no bed for her child, in fact there is a charity based in Leeds that provides beds and PJs for children and the mothers are always very grateful; most loving parents do want to provide the necessities for their families and there are many who only cannot do It because of circumstances and finance
The link to the story about the parents with 36 dogs and children in squalor are at the very extreme end of the spectrum and no one would deny that that is abuse.
I'm not convinced that all SWs would class some of the things mentioned as abuse. I know someone and when her baby was tiny if you visited the house you made your excuses as quickly as possible as the place was a dreadful mess and breathing was difficult because of the stink of dog, you needed to take a hanky with some.essential oils on, sorry, I've got a bit of a bunged up nose so just need to unbung it, mustn't stop as don't want you to catch my lurgy.

Some years later still a tip, and those who have the door opened to them report that it is still pretty stinky. But the lads are reasonably clean when you see them out and about

A floorbed

She's right .

I worked on a job where a woman went to buy something advertised on fb . The couple wouldn't let her in to see the item . When she insisted she came out crying and rang 999 .

5 children were living in absolute dire squalor, no food in, no bedding , filthy filthy squalid conditions, one child was almost dead . No sanitation , sink full of sick, no working toilet , was the worst I've ever seen .

Parents arrested. Funny how they could afford tobacco and pink hair dye . Their children were so malnourished, and the ambulance service thought a 3 year old was dead on the sofa .

I think she's right on this .

I cannot believe school didn't do something. Social services were involved but the parents wouldn't let them through the door . No bloody wonder.
Those children were filthy. Someone should have done something sooner .

@capabilityfrowns that's a regular occurrence on the big child protection cases. Social services being blocked by parents. Powers should be increased.

I agree but I'm at a loss as to why the social workers didn't ring police to
Accompany them to access the house . They simply kept going away . One of those children was almost dead and it was a member of the public who called 999 - social workers can call police for back up to access a house - it was absolutely disgusting. It was so dire scenes of crime were called in to photograph and document the scene.

@capabilityfrowns that's so awful.

It is weird as I doubt someone neglecting their home and children will care to act on her post.

Alternatively - as someone who lives for the time I can afford a cleaner as there are not enough hours what with working full time, being a single parent, washing, ironing, feeding etc - it feels like this might be just what is needed to allow even more judgement. Its not very helpful - am wondering if she needs to up her profile

So she's telling people who are child abusers to clean their house to cover up the number 1 sign of their crimes?!

I always did time in. Like time out but you stay with them to help them work through their feelings. It is very stressful to a child to be 'abandoned' like that. And you're neglecting them just as they need you most.

Absolutely.

I breastfed all my kids to at least 18 months, and was fairly involved in some groups for mums nursing toddlers, and while I think there is a lot to recommend it, one of the things we saw in the group time and time again was mums afraid to set boundaries on their toddlers around breastfeeding.

And of course these kids did use that leverage to try and control their mothers, they are smart about that kind of thing. If they know mum will always stop what she is doing and sit with them, you can be sure they will take advantage whenever they want some attention. Which is a lot of the time.

I remember one mum in particular who was having issues with her little boy biting her on purpose, probably to get a reaction. I suggested that she just put him down, say they were done each time, and go do something else for at least 20 minutes. (In my experience this works very quickly to extinguish the behaviour, often within a day.) This mum said straight out that she thought if she did this she would traumatize the baby, and that when a baby wants something, it needs it. She was really scared she'd screw him up for life.

I do think this kind of attitude is more common among mums doing extended breastfeeding. But it's ignorant about how toddlers are different from babies, in a lot of ways, and it doesn't do the mums or kids any favours.