To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

Very accurate. The amount of people not understanding her post is genuinely quite worrying.

@MaryShelley1818 because her post isn't very clear. Is she saying 'if your house is clean your an abuser?'or 'clean up your house or they'll think you're an abuser?' She's lacking in any sort of guidance as to how to achieve this, or any real understanding of the struggles of many parents. Like other posters have said it is highly unlikely that Mrs M who is using crack daily and has moved her kids into her dealers house which has dog poo on the floor will read this and go 'shit? Soaps only a pound? And neglect is abuse?? I better go out and get some febreeze' it's just ludicrous.

Dryupyourdesertwithtears
The post isn't clear with its intent, but I think people who are suggesting she's encouraging abusers to cover their tracks / suggesting abuse doesn't happen in tidy homes are being deliberately uncharitable.

On here it's really worrying how many threads an OP says they've got some concerns about a child or family and they get piled on by people saying "keep your nose out", "suppose you're a perfect parent", "a bit of mess never hurt anyone I'd be more bothered about a clinical home than a bit of laundry", "don't go snitching to the school, you're just looking for trouble", "don't speak to social services about your concerns", "maybe they're struggling and don't need you getting your judgemental pants on" and so on.
The number of people on here who seem to confuse "reporting concerns so those with a bigger picture can make decisions" with "getting children taken into care by evil social services who are looking to be horrible to families" is worrying.
If knowing that living in filth and a dirty home is a form of neglect, then people who already have concerns might feel more empowered to centre the children and their welfare by reporting the concerns.

@LolaSmiles oh I completely get that. But I think people are more mindful about parental mental health, the impact of trauma and addiction. It's not enough to say 'clean your house'.

Big giveaway for me is a dirty front door and dirty windowsills at the front. Takes 2 mins to whip around with a cloth once a week! Pure laziness.

I find this kind of thinking quite lazy and ableist.

Im disabled, like approximately 20% of the uk population- I can’t physically clean my front door or front windowsills without an enormous effort (access issues, ladders etc). It would take me a hell of a lot longer than two minutes, and wouldn’t be massively safe.

I have to be really careful with how I use my energy every day or I risk becoming bed bound for weeks- my front windowsills are never going to make it up the list of priorities, past all the other things I have to do because they actually make a material difference to our lives, and become an important task.

Big giveaway for me is a dirty front door and dirty windowsills at the front

😂

I have never in my life cleaned a front door or an outside windowsill.

I'm so sorry 😔

Ha. I have never cleansed the front door or outside sills ever! That’s the weather’s job ;-)

@LolaSmiles oh I completely get that. But I think people are more mindful about parental mental health, the impact of trauma and addiction. It's not enough to say 'clean your house
That's true.
I think that too often people read someone is thinking of reporting concerns and they assume, usually from a place of ignorance, that it's bitchy and unkind and judgemental or that making a report is going to send a team in to take the children away for no reason. There's a worrying number of people who seem to think that children end up in care because someone didn't do the dishes one evening.

In reality if someone is really struggling and isn't keeping on top of things and things are starting to slide into chaos, they can't see the wood from the trees, can't break some of the cycles they're in, then having someone notice, make the report and have family support services be able to come in early and signpost to the right people, is probably better for the parents and the children long term.

My problem with her post was firstly that she says an unclean house is the number one sign of abuse which is false and misleading. There are many potential signs which are equally important and a clean house by implication does not discount abuse.

Secondly, if she is referring to children living in squalor it’s going to be pointless just telling the parents to clean. The problems are going to run far deeper than their towel washing rota. So it wasn’t really any use to anyone!

Yeah that was my thought. Who is the intended audience for this? Abusive parents don’t care, presumably. Non abusive normal parents are going to panic that their houses aren’t clean enough.

Dirty front door 😂😂😂 come on. My kitchen is cleaned, the toilets are cleaned, the bedrooms are cleaned. The front door is not cleaned 😂😂

Agree - this sounds like one of those women from Call the Midwife 😁

My problem with her post was firstly that she says an unclean house is the number one sign of abuse which is false and misleading.

I think she means that dirty and neglected homes are the the main reason parents are accused of being abusive, which I do think is probably true.

Lots of parents who lose their kids will say "but we never hit them" or "but they always went to school" or "we never swore at them or took their toys away" - totally ignoring the fact that the chaos of their home is what was neglectful.

I dont get the mums or dads that cant do house work because they have a baby or children.
Or the ones that cant keep on top of anything because of clutter.
There seems to always be an excuse.
If you have to much stuff de-clutter having less feels good.
I dont understand the constant excuse.
Kids at school all day get up clean up.
Work all week do it in the evening or over the week end.
If people can find time to sit on their phones in their spare time then make time to clean up.

The dominant model for understanding human development is currently attachment theory. Backed up by a ton of neuroscience. She has no qualifications and I remember deciding to ignore her when I saw her promoting the shaming ‘naughty step’ idea. Fine in the context of otherwise secure attachments but not good advice where there are any attachment struggles.

I also found her blaming and shaming of parents awful. You can give robust advice and guidance in a kind and respectful way. I know. I’ve been doing it for decades.

Blaming and shaming doesn’t work in real life and can mean the people pull away. She’s made my job much harder because people expect to be blamed and shamed so building trust is harder. I can’t bear her approach.

Is she even a parent herself?

Is she even a parent herself?

What does that have to do with anything?

Because she doesn't know about the daily grind.

I recall a parenting expert being interviewed a few years ago on Womans Hour. And the interviewer said to her something along the lines of; 'Do you follow your own advice? i know you have 2 year old twins now' and the expert said (to her credit) ; God no. It's much harder than I ever thought'.

I am paraphrasing big time but recall it because I was driving home from my older son's latest counselling session and just cheered. And admired the truth.

If anyone else recalls this i'd be grateful for corroboration.

But even that- what is a common wry comment you hear from people through the ages; 'I was such a good parent... until I had children'.

Intentionally clumsily written so its open to interpretation and thus getting her lots of clicks. Nice PR stunt. You're all talking about her now.

I've been in lots of homes that aren't perfectly clean with warm loving parents and other ones which were clinically clean with cold, distant parents and their children grew up with huge issues.

She's talking bollocks if any mess is abuse, but squalor is a sign of neglect, so then she is partially right.

Funnily enough I was looking at a scale social workers use to judge it earlier and its mess that has been around for weeks and not dealt with - moudly food and dishes, floors strewn with debris and hazardous items, pet excrement etc, that signals neglect. Not a sink full of plates from the morning and unfluffed cushions. 😂

Marie Condo? I think that's her name.

Yes I agree, services have been cut to the bone, or disappeared altogether! However some parents (and it doesn’t have to always be mum), can help themselves. I think it’s those parents that Jo is aiming at, the ones who are capable of much more effort, and shouldn’t necessarily need outside intervention.

And YY to the scale. Way back when i was doing a legal child protection course when I did my LPC they had an actual example of SS going into a house in May. Inside the oven they found the remains of a turkey carcass from the christmas before.

That kind of squalor is indicative of a wider level of neglect. Not making a bed first thing in the morning or sending the children in to school with unironed clothes twice a week does not quite compare.

Oh do you think it was marie Condo? I know she has scaled well back on things since her children were born. I have the memory it was an actual so-called parenting expert. But am quite hazy on the details.

Whilst I understand what you’re saying, neglect IS ‘actual abuse’.
Child abuse is when anyone under the age of 18 is either being harmed or not properly looked after. There are four main categories of child abuse: physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse and neglect.

Well she has no qualifications. And as far as I’m aware no expertise through experience either. So where do her ideas come from? How can she call herself an expert.

When children are struggling behaviourally and parents are struggling to put boundaries in, my 30 years of work, my various qualifications and my own experience of parenting tell me that these are often (not always) complex situations with no quick fix.

She has some sound advice but some of what she says could cause more harm than good. I don't rate her.