To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

I wouldn’t read this as a house in need of a dust. I think it’s pretty obvious that a house requiring a hoover doesn’t mean the parents are abusing their children! She’s almost certainly talking about unsafe, unhealthy conditions - mouldy plates, rubbish piling up, poo covered toilets etc. There’s a correlation with that and child neglect, and that’s what she’s noting. If she isn’t, then obviously she’s batshit.

@Isitautumnyet23 but that's you. We're not all the same. There's much more to it. That's not to say that the child should not be of paramount importance but that Jo Frost is not the 'expert' on this matter. My child is often dirty. She has SEN and will only wear certain clothes, she hates baths, she will not brush her hair or let me brush her hair. Obviously we have to do it every week but I think to insist on doing it daily would cause her much more harm than having tangled hair.

"If you are abusing and neglecting your kids be warned - a dirty house is a sign! So make sure your house is clean so you can go under the radar"

Giving abusers a hint of how to hide in plain sight

Good one Jo 😳😡

This. This is what she is referring to, and she’s right. She’s surely not referring to a bit of untidiness. Most of us (thankfully) have never seen the level of dirt and squalor that some children grow up in.

She is right. It's a tell tell of parent's inability to cope with basic responsibilities.

There is a difference between 'Clean' and messy - toys scattered on a clean carpet is quite different to a filthy loo and kitchen as others have said - dirty nappies lying about and animal shit - it's unreal what goes on behind closed doors.

This is sort of what I keep meaning to say. A dirty house is not a good one, and I’m going to repeat, I’m effectively disabled but drinking water with black mould in it to keep hydrated so I don’t have to go back to hospital. But cleaning the house is not going to eliminate the risk of abuse. If you’re abusing or neglecting a child honestly they’re far better off well cared for and grubby in a messy house than abused horribly in a house than has been cleaned. Cleaning doesn’t solve abuse or neglect.

A child living in a grubby mess is being neglected because they are forced to live in an environment that engineers chaos and shame.

YABU I agree with her.

My son’s friends family are under SS. They are all very dirty. SS have obviously told them to clean the house as I’ve seen it a state and then better. They love their kids but are extreme lazy. Don’t bath the kids, wash their clothes. Told by school to buy child new school shoes and coat. They’re just incredibly lazy, and that leads to neglect which is abuse. They improved slightly since SS got involved but sons friend is back to looking filthy and smelling again. It’s so sad, he’s a lovely boy. Everyone has learning difficulties in the house too which adds to the issues.

I grew up in a show home. In fact my parents whole lifestyle would be worthy of an Instagram page. Absolutely spotless at all times.

I was severely emotionally abused and physically neglected. No one noticed because the shiny shiny perfect house and over engagement with school to check I was doing well etc distracted them from the holes in my shoes, my filthy too small clothes (I did my best to hide that too because it was shameful), it hid the fact no one at home gave zero shits about me and that I was made to feel I was a disguting little worm, called a retard, not allowed to be ill (I’d be starved and ignored like I didn’t exist for the duration, I was responsible for my own food from early teens onward but if I was seen eating anything I was accused of faking it and punished) I was not allowed to drop grades at school (what will people think?!) so I was an outstanding student, I’d be ignored like I actually didn’t exist for weeks on end, like fully invisible and had sick mind games played on me etc.

My sibling was not abused or neglected. No one noticed the disparity. The bells and whilstles of the show home and my very well cared for brother meant the gaze of outsiders never came my way.

The place I got loved, cared for, fed and treated like a human being was ironically my grandparents shit hole (by most peoples standards) flat.

So whilst I accept a filthy home might indicate failing parenting and the children might be suffering, I think it’s wrong to be shouting “look over there” and forget the very tidiest cleanest homes can be hiding the dirtiest abuses in plain sight.

This dirty home narrative can be true, yes children can be suffering abuse in dirty homes, but conversely it makes everyone assume a clean home = unlikely any abuse is happening. Which means the children in those ‘show homes’ get overlooked because abuse happens in squalor right? It won’t be happening in immaculate No56 down the street.

It’s happening in ALL types of homes.

Dirty homes are the abuse. Dirty homes are neglect. Dirty homes with nice parents are still being neglected. It doesn't matter the reason. Unsanitary homes are abuse.

You can live in a clean home and be abused too. No one is saying otherwise. I grew up like that.

But my home being clean wasn't abusive. If my home was chaotic and dirty it would have been.

Where in anything I wrote did I mention the look of a child unless you have replied to the wrong person?

I was talking about keeping on top of the absolute basics at home - cleaning the bathroom, washing the dishes in the sink, wiping down the kitchen sides, doing the laundry, clean bedding on etc.

Please re-read what I wrote as nothing mentions how a child looks. My kids can look super scruffy after a day out and my home is very clean/tidy.

YABU. I agree with her 100%.

I'm liviing in a house that is mid renovation, it's carnage to be fair. But it's CLEAN. Cat litter trays are clean, no dirty plates lying around, no rubbish, no used nappies, clothes are washed and ironing is done etc etc.

I used to go out to people's homes as part of my job. Squalor does in my experience indicate that the children's needs are not being met - which in my book , IS abuse.

I would be thinking is your house filthy OP and you're offended?! Maybe you should be -get cleaning.

My Nan always said - you can be poor but there is no excuse for being dirty. Soap is cheap. Get cleaning. Some people have lost pride in themselves and their homes. Big giveaway for me is a dirty front door and dirty windowsills at the front. Takes 2 mins to whip around with a cloth once a week! Pure laziness.

This thread reminds me of the headline Jordan aka Katie Price mucky mansion.

It just doesn’t really make any sense. I don’t think she’s lost the plot, I just think she’s not very bright.

I'd be interested to hear from children's social workers and others involved in child safeguarding.
I know that some relatively "ordinary" things are known red flags, but I've no idea if a "dirty" home is one of them.
Even if it is, I suspect "dirty" in this context doesn't just mean "needs a good scrub and a tidy up because everyone's knackered " but more absolute squalor.

@Haretodayswantomorrow
There are no words.
I hope you are now living your best life

This.

I think there's a certain contingent of parents who pride themselves on being the antithesis to Mrs Hinch.

To me what she's saying is "sort your shit out"

Big giveaway for me is a dirty front door and dirty windowsills at the front. Takes 2 mins to whip around with a cloth once a week! Pure laziness.

If this is the supposed standard for cleaning then I would estimate at least 90% of parents would be classified as 'abusers'.
The problem with Jo and posters like these is they lack any understanding of nuance. Yes shit on the floor etc is obviously abuse but as can be seen from the above quote the statement is ambiguous enough to cover both this and a 'dirty front door'. Shock horror.

It's just an extension of the war she has on neurodiversity. In 2023 it's no longer socially acceptable to berate neurodiverse children and shame them into behaving, but she can go after neurodiverse parents. They're not living in 'squalor' obviously but poor executive function means their houses will be more lived in than hinched in. Plus more susceptible to anxiety around statements around this.
She's a nasty piece of work as that statement is far too general and not helpful at all. Although it might help a few parents hide abuse better, but unlikely.

If someone's house is so filthy a post from Jo Frost is not going to get them to clean up to 'cover their tracks'.
Many people are too lazy/busy abusing substances or alcohol to bother about the state of their home or children.
A filthy home is abuse in my opinion regardless of how loving the parents think they are. Kids don't have a choice in how they live but I am certain they wouldn't pick squalor if they did have a choice.
The post might be worded badly but I don't think it is wrong.

Cleaning the front door? 😁 Once or twice a year with a big clean and then it's up to the rain to keep on top of it. 🤷

@Flatulence well dirty houses can be a deterrent to services entering your property. If no one wants to go visit or they feel it's unsafe then that's one less pair of eyes on your child. Dirt can also hide bruises on a child. Dirty houses can make social workers think that neglect is the main or only issue when it's actually a different form of abuse. Dirty houses can make people think the parents are less capable than they are.

However!
Abusers will cover their tracks. If you look at serious case reviews there were many who let services into their houses. With beautiful Khrya Ishaq, there were bowls of fruits and nuts around the house yet she was starved to death, weighing 2 stone 9lb aged 7. The house was full of food, yet the children stole stale bread put out by a neighbour for the birds.
My point is that what nearly all SCRs have shown is a failure to involve the child or children, you cannot tell the whole story from houses, clothes and food cupboards. You need to speak to the kids independently of their parents, visit multiple times and keep trying to engage the family. But the child's voice and opinions are the most valuable thing.

Having grown up in a chaotic household, I agree with her and I think the replies on this thread will very much depend upon the type of home you grew up in. Yes, there is a big leap from urine-soaked mattresses and dog faeces in the carpet at one end of the scale, but I’m the product of MC neglect…a seemingly ‘respectable’ mother who was a complete narcissist who mentally abused me for years. I was her emotional punchbag for her dissatisfaction with life. If my sheets were washed 3 x a year I’d be surprised. I often had the same underpants on for a week in Primary school and bathing was once a week if she remembered. At secondary school, my hair was unwashed, and I did not have unfettered access to sufficient sanitary products. I was never taught how to keep myself clean. I thank the Lord for ‘Jackie’ and ‘Just Seventeen’ and Judy Blume for answering the questions I needed answering when I was younger. I would never invite people back to our house as I was ashamed of it with further added to my social isolation. Panic ensued if people did what my Mother did to others and turned up unannounced - they would be sent away with a weak excuse. Meanwhile she bitched about other Mothers left, right and centre - people who kept lovely houses were declared as ‘vacuous, vain or ironically, “mentally unwell’. She also mixed solely with people she obviously felt were inferior to her in social standing and kept worse houses. There were certain lovely families I was not permitted to mix with (she told me I was not liked by those people) but the reality was, she didn’t want to see what was in fact, normal. She had a massively high opinion of both herself and her intellect, yet she had failed all school exams whilst I was a really studious child. My SAHM never hoovered, never tidied up, smoked like a chimney and refused to learn to cook. We never ate at a table. My Dad did all of the ironing and I longed for the weekend when he would be responsible for cooking so we would have something home-cooked. The state of the house only became worse when we got a dog - sometimes you couldn’t see the carpet for the thick layer of dog hair which would only be hoovered if I bothered. She was also a hoarder. I would’ve loved for someone from Social Services to have turned up to see what was really going on - the fact someone was watching her may well have made my life significantly better. I thank the Teachers who noticed me, could see through my Mother’s act and encouraged me to shoot for the stars. And for the lovely Mothers of my (non-approved) friends who showed me what parental love looked like and also what a lovely home looked and smelled like. And also Delia Smith for teaching me how to cook from watching her on the telly.

Unsurprisingly, my Home is a source of pride for me. And the fact that my DD can bring anyone home at short notice and it is both welcoming and clean is something that gives me pleasure. So yeah, it might not be a 💯 failsafe way of spotting neglect, but I’d wager it is probably one of the top signs. Regardless of how tired I am or ill I feel I have never thought my child deserves anything less than clean clothes, to be able to walk across a clean floor, to have access to a clean bathroom to use or to have food cooked for them. Now kids have access to SM they know what clean looks like (and how to clean) which I hope will stop this sort of behaviour being passed from generation to generation.

@Haretodayswantomorrow 💐to you. Differing circumstances clearly, but I had the same disparity with the cleanliness of a sibling. Just bizarre you could do that to kids. I too hope you are living your best life.