To think Super Nanny Jo Frost has lost the plot?

[Pekoe78]

Assuming she sanctions the views on her social media page. Jo Frost has shared this bizarre scary post claiming that an unclean home is the “number one sign” of child abuse. How is she getting away with such inaccurate information? Surely she knows the difference between abuse and neglect and that actual abuse can happen in any home. If a child is actually suffering from real neglect, simply telling the parents “clean your house” is not going to help a complex situation. So what is she trying to achieve apart from making parents terrified of being accused of something because they are behind with cleaning?!

YANBU but for a slightly different reason. I’m sure it’s correct that there is a correlation - not a perfect one, but there is - between neglect of home and neglect of children. The conclusion of “clean your home then you won’t be a child abuser!” Is just odd though. You could have a home looking like it’s from a magazine advertising new kitchens after a weekend’s work and your child hasn’t had new knickers on for a week and has been punched around the face. Or you have an immaculate home with all the resources to hire help etc and the child has been psychologically destroyed with verbal and emotional abuse.

I don't think much of her in general but yes, sadly the outcomes of investigations into many child death cases has indeed found filthy homes, hair and clothes to be part of the overall risk profile.

“Soap” or lack of is clearly being used as an example of a parent saying they can’t afford to keep their kids clean. It’s not about soap, it’s about the priorities. And I’ve been to places that don’t have running water let alone hot water and the kids are still clean.

All these examples highlight parents problems. The child should come first. A child who isn’t being looked after is the key issue. No one has time to post every issue so “ keep your child clean” is the message.

@TinPotAlley

But you replied to my post, which was agreeing with all the points made by @Dryupyourdesertwithtears and your point didn't relate to anything said in that post!

I wondering if, finding posts like this rile you up, it says more about your sense of shame about the state of your house than it does about her.

Is a house truly squalid? unchanged bedsheets, kitchens that put children at risk of food poisoning, unclean clothes, unwashed bodies + hair? That is 100% child neglect - there’s no excuse for this - and if someone is unable to keep a sanitary and safe space they need help.

If it’s a bit untidy - the laundry comes straight out the dryer and on to bodies sometimes / the dog climbs on the sofas despite best efforts / the house plants haven’t been watered / you still haven’t managed to clean the crayon off the skirting board from last week - you’re ok. Breathe + move on. this isn’t about you.

it Doesn’t seem like she’s talking about a messy house I think she’s talking about an unclean house. I think if a child is living in squalor then yes, abuse.

Oh my God.
That's about the most patronising, stupid, pointless thing I've ever read (JF, not you!).

Whether people pay attention to her or not, inaccuracies in the public domain need to be called out.

You can save your 🙄 that's not what she said.
There can be a correlation, yes. But she didn't say that or offer context.

It doesn't have to be 'about' any of us posting here for us to react critically to misinformation & a form of poverty-shaming, accompanied by nonsensical 'advice' (that won't in any way help a struggling family).

Yeah, this might be.

Sometimes we are inclined to imagine these parents are terrible people who hate their kids. Often, maybe usually, that's not true.

My daughter's best friend is in a home that is borderline like this. The mother is very loving, but continually makes very poor choices and gets herself into situations where she can't manage. Like moving the kids into a shack with no indoor plumbing - not so bad in the summer when they moved in with the intent of adding on, but when winter arrives and they haven't done any work because the are overwhelmed and can't get the money together, or when they have added a couple dogs and cats to the mix. All because she was charmed by a new man who talked it up but is ultimately lazy.

I just want to shake her and say, you cannot drag your kids into this kind of situation, it's clearly never going to work out the way you hope.

I did a course a few years back with a view to working as a volunteer support worker for families in need of support - the service users were mostly single mums with mental health conditions or single mums and couples who had come to the attention of social services through various channels - mainly domestic violence, mental or physical illness. Or loneliness and having no family support.
I passed all the relevant DBS checks and home visits, interviews etc. But I left before the end of the training course - I had to answer a question in a group session about how I would help a fictional single mum with post natal depression who had a dirty house - referred by health visitor because she didn't take her toddler out and child was seen walking round in a vest and dirty nappy -
Not dressed by lunchtime.( mum and baby)
On the course we were told we had to arrange a time with our client for a 1-2 hour visit to offer support
I said hypothetically I would feel that i could visit late morning and I would
Ask her whether she wanted me to help around the house or help with baby.
I was told by the course leader that I wasn't there to help her in a practical way!
I was there to listen to her - I asked them to define the role of a support volunteer with a major uk charity that promotes itself as help in the home and works with social services. They said I wasn't there to help to her wash up - or mind the baby while she took a shower.
The course leaders used to joke about the state of peoples homes - one told us to wear old clothes because you don't want to ruin your clothes - telling us the story of one volunteer who went to support a couple in a 2 bed flat with 3 kids and 4 or 5 dogs. There was dog mess in the kitchen when she went to make a cup of tea and she sat down on the sofa only to find that it was wet because the dog had peed on it ! They thought it was funny that there were 3 kids living in that - we asked what role the support did- they said oh she takes the mum out for a walk and they take the kid to the park. I heard later from some one who knew this family in the town where I lived that the kids were taken into Foster care and the dogs were taken to rescue.
I didn't finish the course as I thought it would be important to offer some kind of practical support. A lot of the families already had other counselling and social services input so I thought I was there to offer practical support on top of that because that was how the charity sell themselves in their advertising.

A foster child I knew when asked what he wanted from.a new home replied " a clean house"

Those who regularly go into the houses of people in crisis, will know just how bad some houses can get. We're not talking a days worth of dishes by the sink, dusty skirting boards, toys and cushions not picked up off the floor or shoes littering the hallway.
We're talking toilets which are black with dirt, children's bedrooms with no sheets on mattresses that stink of urine. Weeks/months worth of rubbish just left lying round the house. In those circumstances there's a fine line between neglect and abuse, when it comes to children.

I think she's probably right TBH - but it could be worded better - I don't think she means a bit behind with the cleaning, I think she means houses where there isn't any cleaning happening full stop. I'm not the queen of housekeeping in any way shape or form, but I strive to keep my house to an acceptable level of cleanliness (might not be up to everyone's standards but it's definitely not dirty) because I want my children to grow up in a clean and healthy environment (although it's definitely not very tidy a lot of the time!!).

There's a house near where I live and the blinds hanging in the window are utterly filthy with black mould. I often wonder what the houses are like inside and if the children who live there are OK.

Although to be honest this sort of post is not going to have any impact on the sort of people who are neglecting/abusing their children, and living in squalor, is it? So I'm not entirely sure what the point of it is.

I remember going to LA safeguarding training where they said the opposite of this - that messy homes don’t make the threshold for intervention unless it’s actually dangerous. Thankfully or most mums of toddlers would be living in fear 😁

I would hope most people wouldn’t take supernanny - who has neither professional qualifications nor any parenting experience - as an authority on such matters.

I don't think she's wrong in that a properly dirty, neglected house is often a sign that there are issues at home, which may include abuse. When I say properly dirty, neglected I mean layers of grime, animal hair/urine/poop on the carpet, lots of dishes here and there, the bathroom not clean enough to use properly, lack of clean clothes, bedding etc. Not doing the best to provide a clean and safe space to live is abuse -folk living in temporary housing will of course have a more difficult time keeping everything washed and clean, but as someone already said they often make more effort to be clean and tidy because they still want to do the best they can with what they have.

Unclean and untidy are different. Keeping your child in as healthy environment as possible is part of parenting. If a house is filthy and squalid it's unlikely the child will be well looked after by the adults not keeping their house clean. It doesn't need to be spotless but if you walk in to someone's house and it's filthy and smelly you'd have concerns about the inhabitants especially those without capacity.

Some people getting confused I think...

She is not saying a dirty house is abuse or cleaning will stop abuse.

She is saying often a dirty house can be a SIGN of abuse. I think she's right.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with what she is saying.

Poverty certainly makes keeping homes and children clean so much more difficult, but it is possible. Cheap soap/ hand washing detergent are options but bloody hard

Her post is badly worded. Many posts on here explain it much better than JFs post, with a similar number of words. If she is making a career saying these things her meaning should be much clearer.

I wonder if she can say unacceptable yet.

But, as a society, we clearly don't prioritise children. If we did, we wouldn't vote the way we do. If supernanny actually wanted to improve the lot of children she'd be campaigning for investment in their lives; early years support, in education, a less punitive welfare system, against growing inequality etc.

We were addressing some of these issues, and with measurable success but since 2010 it's been a scandalous bonfire.

She’s talking extremes. She is probably right. Untidy is not dirty.

Very true

There’s a huge difference between having a perfect home and not keeping on top of basic cleaning. I wouldn’t let my children use a dirty bathroom and it takes less than the time it took me to look through these posts to do a quick clean of a bathroom. Any parent (working or stay at home) can take 5 minutes to clean a toilet and sink. Same as cleaning the kitchen after use.

I would be concerned walking into a dirty house that there were bigger issues if someone cant keep on top of the absolute basics. I dont think shes talking about toys scattered on the floor or abit of dust here.