Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

Also op. You said they had allergy notices up and it's confusing. They have to have the allergy notices up. They don't have to serve you.

I would much rather someone tell me they can’t cater for my daughter than get it wrong. I’d be a bit upset for her that once again, she can’t be normal, but safety is all that matters. Our staple is McDonald’s chips. If we are out, we always find a McDonald’s for her.

Allergies get worse each time you come into contact with the allergen.

Allergic reactions are actually notoriously unpredictable. They don't (necessarily) get worse each time. The reaction can depend on lots of things, eg amount of allergen ingested and, for some allergens, whether the food's been cooked and the cooking method used are important. The reaction can also vary according to your general health at the time, even if you're fighting a cold or are very tired or if you've been drinking etc. The fact that they're unpredictable makes them more dangerous.

I really hope your sister is okay now @GorgeousPizza. It sounds terrifying.
Simple human error is the thing I worry about most wrt allergies. (This includes error on my part - I am in dread of forgetting the epipens.)

@Marynotsocontrary yes she’s okay now - this happened a while ago. Very very scary though!

Ah interesting, so I myself have allergies, not to nuts or as severe as my sisters but have recently seen an allergy consultant throughout the year who told me with each reaction I have (and they average about one per year) my reaction will become worse! Yes I can logically see why those things would attribute to the severity of the reaction but nonetheless it’s never worth the risk

Why would you be cross at someone that
Doesn’t want to lose their job
doesnt want to harm someone else let alone a child
has come out and said to you they can’t do it

didnt you say epipen? Thats not a thing to brush under the carpet.
you may be willing to
rosm it but quite rightly so other are not. Especially with lots of news articles about said things

I'm very glad to hear she is well.

I'm not sure why the allergy consultant said that. (Sorry - this sounds extremely rude, I know - but is the consultant an actual doctor? It's just that sometimes people can set themselves up doing IgG allergy testing and so on when they're not really experts...)

I know that persistent exposure to allergens can result in chronic allergic inflammation and cause asthma, rhinitis etc - but this is usually to things like dust mites, or pollen or dander that people are living with on a day-to-day basis.
Food allergens that a person may be accidentally exposed to once a year should be different. And everything I've read suggests that the severity of an allergic reaction to food is difficult to predict.

You as the chef would say I'm sorry I can't guarantee no contamination so I can't serve you just incase

But seem the chef didn't say that

You lost me with saying that your son only wants to eat homemade now because ‘the man said I would get ill’ it’s the equivalent of the sad faces pic in the gutter press.
if you tell he won’t get ill then he’ll believe you, not ‘the man’ what a load of tosh.
you probably came across as a pain in the preverbial and they just didn’t want the hassle. If you’d eaten there before and checked the allergens - why even mention it? YABU.

i’ve had enough severe allergic reactions whilst eating out to not trust anywhere with Dd who has even worse allergies than mine! She doesn’t eat out. Anaphylaxis can be (and often is) deadly. Why risk it for the sake of “eating out”?

In an ideal world we could eat out and eat food at weddings, but in reality it isn’t worth the risk. We do self catering. We attend wedding but not the reception, or we bring food with us. Last wedding I attended where I ate the food, I was served a “nut free” stuffed red pepper with cashews and my lips swelled up!

This. A lot of people don't understand allergies and don't understand that even a tiny trace of nut oil can be dangerous. This chef clearly does understand it, knows that the practices his employers prescribed aren't good enough, and has the integrity to refuse to put a child at risk. Good for him.

An allergy is a disability. Places of public accommodation have to make a reasonable effort to cater for people with disabilities.

Refusing to serve someone with an allergy is similar to refusing to serve someone in a wheelchair. It might be that particular circumstances make it completely impossible
to do safely, but the business can’t just say no because it is inconvenient or a bit more difficult.

The stakes are QUITE different.

Do you have something legal to prove this?

I am the same as your son, allergic to nuts but generally fine with cross contamination. It’s very frustrating when you have to answer a series of questions. You should be taken at your word that you are fine to eat these foods. The chef was covering their own back and they should have got you to sign a disclaimer. From another perspective, I do understand where the chef is coming from. I work in a school and last year had a girl with a list of allergies and a lactose intolerance. We were making something that contained cheese, so I asked mum if there was a preference regarding brand of lactose free cheese. Mum told me she was trying dairy at home as instructed by the consultant and I could use normal cheese with her. I did, but was worried, so we told the whole class to wait until home time before they ate what they had made. I handed this child’s food to her dad and explained and let him be the one to hand it to her to eat.

The chef isn’t shit at all the opposite intact

allergens stuff is all or nothing from the supply chain to totally separate area and equipment in the kitchen if you can’t guarantee this you don’t risk it

people sue ,people die and people are prosecuted over this

Think OP was unreasonable whilst not handled well by front of house considering they have a child with allergies
know how important it is should be pleased they take it seriously

as for the pizza example yes the pizza would be fine BUT the kitchen area ,work tops and utensils would need to be totally separate to guarantee no previous contamination

there’s been a lot of work done on this recently

Agreed

Maybe the chef did say this and mum didn't listen and went all karen on the chef we only have one side of the story which reads that mum wasnt fussed about chikds health and restaurant was concerned and mum got on her high horse

It's really isn't the same thing.

Refusing to serve something you cannot guarantee could cause a reaction, making someone ill or worse is a good thing.

@Marynotsocontrary thank you. Yes he’s a 20 year allergen consultant at the allergy clinic at my local hospital 😳worrying if that information is incorrect! A paramedic told me the same when I ended up calling 111 once for a very bad reaction!

Are you ok??? No where near the same thing at all! If there was a problem it could actually kill a child

There are places that do not serve nuts but even then it's hard to eliminate them from the supply chain because ingredients are bought in which could be cross contaminated - once staff have been informed about an allergy they cannot then serve anything which "may contain" according to the supplier even if you are willing to take that risk. My local pub is nut free (much to dps bemusement as he likes nuts as a snack) but they still cannot guarantee any item is nut free as they buy in some items

This is why allergy sufferers like me now don’t disclose. What is the point in saying an item is nut free but then refuse to serve it to an allergy sufferer just in case. Pointless having allergens listed on menus if the establishment then refuses to serve you.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibilities that this chef had been cooking in the pub kitchen for an event, previously or in the future. Or been cooking elsewhere for some event that had nuts on the menu. Or it was simply a new supplier with unknown controls, or the chef had heard about this
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/08/man-with-peanut-allergy-died-after-slice-of-pizza-inquest-in-newcastle-hears

Who wants to take that risk?

See I gave just read that and the first thing that jumps out is that they ordered chicken tikka masala pizza. I wouldn’t touch that as masala sauces are notorious for being made differently. Most use almonds but some don’t. I eat take away pizza all the time and am allergic to peanuts and all tree nuts including almonds.