Pub chef refusing to cook for allergies

[Allergyissue87]

Very odd experience yesterday, my son has a nut allergy and we eat out once or twice a month. Generally we get shown an allergy folder or directed to an app to check and given a quick warning about cross contamination and all fine. I know the level of his allergy and am happy to take a small risk of cross contamination etc, otherwise he could never have a meal out.
Yesterday we went to a chain pub, have been before with no issues, asked if we had any allergies, told the woman at the till yes a nut allergy, we've checked the allergen info and happy with risk of cross of contamination etc. All fine, ordered, paid and sat down with our drinks.
Then about 20 minutes later a chef came to the table to tell us he can't cook for us as there is an allergy and our order shouldnt have been taken. I was really confused, wondered if it was a new chef etc, I explained I'd checked the allergy info on their website, it doesn't contain any allergens and I'm aware of the small possibility of cross contamination but not an issue for his level of allergy, and he's eaten it before and all fine. But no, he was adamant he cannot serve food due to this allergy, he was apparently the kitchen manager and would not risk making a child ill, couldn't explain further than that and went back to the kitchen.
I went back up to the bar and asked for the manager, a young assistant manager gave me a full refund and apologised but still couldn't give me a real explanation.

I'll most likely complain through their online form as we wasted about an hour by the time we had got our refund and left, with 2 hungry children, and my son who now doesn't want to eat anything not homemade as 'the man said I'll get ill'.
Am I being unreasonable to expect to be served?

To clarify if my son ate a nut, or something containing nuts he would be unwell and need an epipen, but has been fine with previous incidents of his food touching nut-containing food etc and there wasn't actually anything containing nuts on the pub menu.

I was a teacher. Children rarely had two at school due to being forgetful. Huge problem.

I've got a gluten allergy and I went to a Chinese takeaway and they weren't particularly keen on me eating there either. They kind of put me off in a nice way. I understood I actually respected them for it if they aren't sure then why should I or they take the risk.

So my sister has a serious nut allergy - if your son requires an epipen then he has a serious allergy. I’m surprised you’re ok with cross contamination and would take that risk?? With each reaction the allergy becomes more severe which happened to my sister and resulted in cardiac arrest and would have been fatal if it wasn’t for a paramedic sitting on the table next to us and an ambulance arriving within minutes!! The chef did the right thing. Don’t complain, he could have possibly inadvertently saved your child’s life in this case. Please don’t be so blasè about allergies if your son is requiring an epipen!

Interestingly given the thread, we were at the allergy clinic today. Based on her history and blood test results both the paediatrician and allergy nurse were very positive about her eating may contains and eating out, even in places that have peanuts (her allergen) if they can wipe down surfaces etc as appropriate. This is despite her having epipens - they don't think she would go into anaphylaxis if she ate something accidentally but the risk isn't nil so we need to have them, train anyone who looks after her etc but in our case it's a belt and braces situation.

I’ve had a severe dairy allergy for over 30 years as well as several other food intolerances and it makes eating out very difficult. So many dishes contain cream or cheese or both! Deserts are often a complete no-no. I can usually get round it somehow and only once has a restaurant refused to serve me because they couldn’t guarantee no milk in their bread!

I DO understand how frustrating it is but, in the case of a nut allergy, if I were that chef I wouldn’t want to take the risk either.

I was horrified that (at the time of writing) two thirds of respondents to this post think that the OP is being unreasonable. I would be interested to know how many of these respondents either have a food allergy themselves, or care for someone who does.

I have a nut allergy myself, as well as two children with various food allergies. We are extremely careful and rarely eat out. I have also had a similar experience to the OP and it’s devastating. I completely understand where she’s coming from.

Things are much better than when I was younger, with the advent of published allergens on menus, separate allergy folders / QR codes etc. However, as this post illustrates, there is clearly some way to go.

I truly believe that in some years to come, allergies will come to be understood as a medical condition which is akin to a disability, for which eating establishments must (like any other disability) make reasonable adjustments. Completely refusing to serve a customer in the circumstances outlined (no obviously nutty foods on the menu; child has eaten safely there before) is not a reasonable adjustment; it is discrimination.
OP I am with you.

If your son needs an epipen if eats nuts I am suprised you are happy to take the risk of cross contamination

And maybe the chef wasn't and why he refused

If you eat there a lot does your son eat the same dish usually and this time was a different choice ?

Who was the chef last time

Why was he happy to cook but latest one Wasn't

These are questions I would ask the restaurant

If your son needs an epipen if eats nuts I am suprised you are happy to take the risk of cross contamination

What people on this thread are conveniently overlooking is that there was next to no risk of cross contamination because there were no nuts on the menu. Contaminated how? It would be a different story if it were an Indian restaurant, for example, where there would be nuts and nut oil used as ingredients.

Parents of kids with nut allergies have to take risks, or they’d starve to death. But we know that if there are no nut warnings on a product they’re as safe as can be, whether that’s food bought from a shop or a restaurant.

The chef just couldn’t be arsed following the standard operating procedure of the company.

Thank you allergyissue18.
Perhaps the kitchen had to buy something as a substitute due to selling out or delivery issues so not 100 % sure if the product was nut free.
As chefs we do our utmost to keep everyone safe and to #enjoy our food.Normally i would cross reference with a colleague.
Im glad this was a situation that ended well.🙏

It’s not worth the risk to them. They’ve only got your word to go off and if something goes wrong it would be on them.

He didn’t feel comfortable with the risk so refused, good for him. No one would likely back him up if anything had gone seriously wrong and I’m thinking it was unlikely any disclaiming was signed.

Regarding cross contamination, in this instance it is so low risk as there is nothing containing nuts in their kitchen, it wouldn't be possible for actual nuts to get on or touch his pizza, it would be a case of something prepared elsewhere alongside food with traces of nuts, possibly contaminating his food. This would be ok for him, however we wouldn't take this risk somewhere that does serve food full of his allergy.

Those are the questions I wanted answered, if the chef had said I can't cook for because whatever reason I would absolutely respect that, and no need for follow up. All he would say is 'no because he has an allergy' , wouldn't say anything further, the manager could only say sorry but because he said so. Even the area manager in charge of 20 pubs couldn't explain what the issue was.
I do appreciate with an allergy we can't eat everywhere and that's fine, even if he had listened to me but said he didn't feel comfortable, or was still concerned I wouldn't have pushed it at all.

MenoMeno- you sadly just don't get it. It is because some of the foods they prepare are bought in, ready made- so the Chef cannot possibly 100% be sure.

As for the 'must take risk or kids would starve' it is totally wrong and insensitive. If your child as al life-threatening allergy (not intolerance) - you cook and prepare packed lunches, etc- on holiday, or any single day. It's very tough on famiies - it is what it is. (and if on holiday, always self catering- and spend the first day cleaning every single plate, cup, utensil, pots, pans, cupboards, fridge, etc, etc - often taking your own frying pan or buy one there, etc. And double run the dishwasher too, if there is one.

I would email the chain @Allergyissue87 and ask those questions

I think that’s really disappointing and the restaurant should make it clear in advance if they can’t cater to nut allergies.

the chef could have explained the reasoning just because it would help you understand. It’s fair enough for him to refuse if he knows he cannot provide safe food, but he should explain why. Op has surely heard it all when eating out and would appreciate a deeper understanding of any issues.

The signs, menu warnings and question from server about allergies is to ensure customers have looked at all the relevant information to decide for themselves whether they can eat or not.
The customer making the decision may have been the parents, but the consumer who is the one with the allergy is a child who may not be able to risk assess. So there would be ko repercussions should there be a horrendous reaction to the food?

Some posters still seem to be missing the point. Life is one big risk. We risk assess every single day. Parents risk assess on behalf of their children for everything until they are mature enough to do it themselves. From crossing the road, climbing on equipment at the park, travelling in a car, riding a bike. The list goes on and on. Allergies are no different. No restaurant can guarantee that there will be no cross contamination. All they can do is provide allergen information and allow the customer to make an informed judgement on the risks. If the customer deems the risk to be too great then they can leave and go elsewhere or not eat out at all. Allergy sufferers make judgement calls every day based on the packaging of products they buy. I take no notice at all of may contain traces of nuts labelling as I can see that the list of ingredients does not include nuts so my risk assessment is that the chances are small, there is still a risk but one I am prepared to take. Someone else may have a different view and that is ok. I wouldn’t do a sky dive because I consider it too risky but a lot of people do.

Poor chef, damned whatever decision he makes

So you think they have to serve people with allergies even though they know the food isn’t allergen free? Really?

They can. If they’re a nut free environment and source products from nut free environment they’re but allergen free. Of course it’s possible.

I do get it, I’ve lived with it for over a quarter of a century. My DS has a serious nut allergy and I’ve managed to make sure he’s never had another reaction since his first one at three years old, so I must have done something right!

Pub chains serve reheated ready meals. They’re procured centrally, the same in every pub. The big chains are not cooking food from scratch. Most don’t have nuts on the menu, so there’s no risk of contamination. It’s no different from buying a ready meal from Asda, checking the box and if there’s no nut warning on the box, you know it’s safe.

But as confirmed by the area manager, the food WAS allergen free. The chains declare their potential allergens on their websites. They can’t just substitute ingredients willy-nilly like a small independent restaurant can because by law they have to display allergy information.

I don't think it shows he is shit at his job, I think it shows he was being cautious, maybe over cautious but still. It's a chain pub they went to, highly unlikely the meals would have been prepared from scratch on the premises, most of it is brought in in those places. Maybe as others have said he knew something and didn't want to put your child at risk, or maybe he was just too nervous for something to contaminate the food. It would be good to get more explanation as to why if they will give it to you. Even though you were happy with the risk, if something had happened it would be his head on the chopping block, literally. (sorry I was trying to reply to someone else's comment but it seems to have not posted like that, not sure how to do it!)

Believe me, area managers don't know the details of everything that goes on in every store/restaurant in their region.

The area manager will be following company policy of "X never happens", but considering many stores don't see their area managers more than once or twice a year, the reality is often very different.

But the response confirmed to OP that the food was safe.

Not everyone with allergies, even people with epipens, need to take that many precautions. We went on holiday to an AI resort, after a conversation with the chef DD was able to eat everything at the buffet except the desserts which were may contains but they recommended we avoid. We didn't make a single meal. Individual families have different circumstances and different attitudes to risk.