Why are so many kids STILL taking the father's name?

[LefthandRight]

Is this some kind of feminist blind spot? Most kids still get the dads name and I see women saying "it was just easier", "double barrelling was a mouthful", "I don't mind". You even get situations where the mum has not taken the father's name so she has a different name to her kids but "it's no big deal" and it's like... So it's no big deal for the woman but apparently its a huge big deal for the man?

It really makes me angry because I just can't believe women have to go through the effort and intrusiveness/pain of childbirth only to have that ownership "label" whipped off them, it feels unfair

That's a new one for me. Appreciating traditions! All 'tradition' means to me is that lots of people have done something before you so now you should do it too

I think you maybe came here to just be defensive for the sake of it. And rude.

I did a copy and paste of quotes. If you disagree, then feel to free to do the quotes.

Exactly.

Correcting typos isn’t very kind, Sonora.

What did you mean by ‘he let me choose’?

Perhaps some women don’t see it as an ownership label and don’t attach meaning to it in the way you do.

Exactly this for me. I had very strong feelings about keeping my maiden surname, and to continue being Ms, when a got married. My name is a vital part of my identify and I saw absolutely no reason why I should change it. And so I didn’t.

When we had two daughters they were given my husband’s surname. In return I got final say over their first names, plus both their middle names are family names from my side of the family. This felt fair to both of us.

Ideas of ‘ownership’ didn’t come into it at all. My husband doesn’t own the children, or have a closer relationship with them, simply because they share a surname!

No there is no hyphen. I’ve looked at how to change that but been told it’s not worth going to court over and I should just start adding it myself but that won’t change the system as it already appears on there without. DD has a lot of medical issues so I am at frequent appointments with her and I hate being asked if I’m her mum because we don’t share the same surname if I collect prescriptions for her I give my surname they can’t find her if, I give his they find her instantly but I hate saying his surname. He won’t give me permission to change it so I decided to wait till she was 16 and change it but have been told that’s selfish and wrong as it’s “her identity” yet she doesn’t even know that’s her surname as I have other children who only have mine so I didn’t want her feeling out of place or wondering why she’s the only one who doesn’t have mine.

Agreed. It's a personal choice not an affront to feminism.

I coped and pasted earlier and you still disagreed, so no, really can’t be bothered and I’m too distracted by my kids trying to cycle into trees to go back again. We agree on other points, just move on, I am.

That's a new one for me. Appreciating traditions! All 'tradition' means to me is that lots of people have done something before you so now you should do it too
Not a new one for me, I totally get where the poster is coming from.
When it comes to marriage and having kids, I have traditional views too and appreciate the tradition of marriage and the family unit.
So I wanted us all to have the same name.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest that it's not my maiden surname.
It doesn't mean I'm "owned", it doesn't mean I didn't know what I'm doing etc.

What the issue with 'he let me choose' anyway? Of course a woman can choose to keep her name, but having the choice of taking on his surname should be something he agrees with rather than is assumed. A man saying you can do either isn't a bad thing surely; I mean getting hung up on the semantics of 'let' when it's clear what it's meant would be pathetic wouldn't it?

Do you think you might stop bullying @Sonora25 soon?

There's a big divide in feminisms - said in the plural as it's a pluralistic set of movements not one monolithic 'ism' - between ideas of sameness vs. difference, or equality of opportunity vs. valuing 'women's' work as carers and their role in the domestic sphere. It's also about not suffering disadvantage, unequal pay, rape or VAWG, because of our sex, and it's about having control over our reproductive faculties and our legal parental rights and status. Not too long ago, divorced women were not allowed to keep their children. In no small part we have the sad story of Caroline Norton to thank for that change in the law.

We forget the seriousness of the battles fought by our foremothers, because too often, we take their wins for granted. We know we'll see our children if our relationship fails. We know marital rape is illegal and we don't have to tolerate it, and we know we have the right to the vote and an equal democratic voice.

Nowhere in the last fraught, contested, sometimes bitter last century of feminism has 'choice' been a key agenda item. If it happens organically as a result of these battles, fine. But 'feminism is about choice' is a lazy cop out, and diminishes the fact that it's very serious political business, sometimes amounting to a fight to the death.

The family name issue is a pretty recent phenomenon, probably post second wave. Even radicals of my mother's generation would still likely have their husbands' names. I've always used my own family name and was married in 2008. In my profession this is very common, albeit since that time it seems fewer women have been doing so and things have reverted back to a state where taking the husband's name is almost expected by default. I'd be curious to know whether this is merely anecdotal in terms of my own observation, or an actual, verifiable trend.

We decided that any girls we had would take my family name, and boys would take his. In the end we had one boy who has both names.

Whatever the average person does, lots of people will have already done it before them these days. There's nothing new under the sun.

I think it's bizarre that you think men will refuse to have children if they don't have their name.

Will never happen. Many pregnancies are unplanned and they will have no choice. Women are also entitled to change their mind regarding names at any point.

Men have no control over this issue really.

Ridiculous. If a man won’t want a relationship or to have children with you unless the children have only his manly man’s name, run a mile

I think you have that the wrong way around. It’s Sonora bullying others by correcting their spelling.

We discussed both options.

we decided on his for a variety of reasons:

he already had children, and the divorce/power his ex had against him with the children made it clear that a man would find it much more difficult dealing with schools/gp’s etc with a different name. He was already having to carry legal documentation to “prove” he had parental responsibility, school wouldn’t talk to him without his ex, neither would the GP. His ex trying to change his kids name’s to her OM’s broke him.

holidays, hotels, basic life if ever he needed to do anything without me, if I couldn’t go. A 50 year old “Mr Smith” booking a hotel room or trying to leave the country with 15 year old “Jane jones” is a call to the police.

it was the right decision for us. My relationship with my kids has never been questioned, despite having a different name. There are many occasions when his would have been- the assumption is step father where the child’s name is different.

it’s nothing to do with my feminism, but more recognising females/mums have a lot more power and credibility than dads, and them having his surname recognises his responsibilities. If we split it would be 99.9% certain the kids would remain with me, purely because I’m female.

as it is my kids have a second nationality on my side, and my family name is instantly recognisable as that nationality. So my name features strongly in their heritage anyway and they recognise it when they’re asked how come they have two passports.

i know many women change their names and name their kids purely for traditional/patriarchy/want to show how proud I am to be married, but that is not why I did it. That would have been pretty much the only reason not to, tbh.

My kids have my surname. We agreed that they would take my name but when we get married we all change our name to his surname. He doesn't want to take my name, which I can understand why, and I don't care what name I have as long as it's the same as the kids

Why should a man have the right to agree whether a woman keeps her own name?

Your views are archaic.

I kept my name. My children have his. I’m the only one in my family with my surname and it bothers me not. I hope my girls don’t change their name when they marry. I hope my sons wife won’t either. Feminists care about some things more than others. This was something I didn’t care too much about. My dad didn’t give permission for my husband to marry me. Nor did he walk me down the aisle to ‘give me away’. And I was super close to dad. Like i said, importance is in the eye of the beholder.

It's your name.as much as your father's.

Men don't own names.

I often think it should be called SemanticsNet, so many threads totally derailed by it

I changed to my husbands name out of choice when we married. He wouldn't have given a glittery shit whether I did or not. My choice was empowering based on my own personal reasons for wanting it.

Am I a feminist? Yes

Do I feel owned? No

Do I feel changed? Nope, still the exact same person I was the day before I signed that bit of paper.

Would my husband been annoyed if I didn't? No, he's marrying me, a person, even if my name was "fishflaps beefcake". He didn't want to marry his own surname or a fucking word on a bit of paper.

Why? I don't believe my surname defines me, my identity, my career, or my ability to be the girl boss I am.

Do I like the fact our baby due April will have the same name and mummy and daddy? Yep!

My baby is a girl - when the times comes to marry whomever she chooses, she can do exactly what she likes with her own name, or even sooner by deed poll or whatever. It's her name, her choice.

You and @TeaKitten are being highly unpleasant to her, all over her use of the word ‘let’, which she has already explained. You have no evidence to claim her husband is controlling or a misogynist based on anything she has said.