Why are so many kids STILL taking the father's name?

[LefthandRight]

Is this some kind of feminist blind spot? Most kids still get the dads name and I see women saying "it was just easier", "double barrelling was a mouthful", "I don't mind". You even get situations where the mum has not taken the father's name so she has a different name to her kids but "it's no big deal" and it's like... So it's no big deal for the woman but apparently its a huge big deal for the man?

It really makes me angry because I just can't believe women have to go through the effort and intrusiveness/pain of childbirth only to have that ownership "label" whipped off them, it feels unfair

I think that’s a great point and the main reason why I think the surname argument is a totally moot point as it does very little for feminism in the grand scheme. There are far more important issues to be addressed and sometimes I think these piddly things get debated and the real problems get buried underneath.

My ex was the only boy and my sisters kids had her surname so it was passed on

Both our surnames were a pain in the backside and consistently spelt incorrectly - bit people assumed what mine was and tend to ask with his - there was reasoning behind them having his

A name is not an ownership tag. No one owns a child.
I think giving a baby the father's surname is the cultural norm that people like to keep practising. Simples..
Everyone knows the modern choices that exist but people like to follow tradiiton.

You can be a feminist whilst also recognising that that there are loads of decent, kind and respectful men out there, many who are feminists themselves. You don’t have to be a man hater to be a feminist. This post recognises that loads of women give the man’s surname without really thinking. Some of those men will be the type to run off and never have anything to do with the child in future.

Well "my" name is my dads name. My mums name came from.... her father. Or i could choose to share DHs.

Its just a name. I want us all to have the same one.

So why didn’t you all take yours?

Not read every post, but I have no idea how and why this got turned around. My understanding is that traditionally, the children of unmarried mothers had the mothers surname. You see this all the time as the norm in old novels - baby had mum's name. It was on marriage that women traditionally changed their name to that of their husbands, and therefore any children also had that name - not because it was the father's name, but because it was now their mother's name as well. It feels like this change has only happened relatively recently (70 years or so?) but so many are convinced that it's traditional to take the dad's name I'm starting to wonder if I'm actually wrong about this. Must dig out those old books again!

My husband doesn’t own me because I took his name. We are one family. I’m proud of the fact we are a solid little unit with the same name. I assume children with double barrelled names are from never married or split up parents.

This isn't my experience though. I had shit exes in the past but didn't have children with them. Had some pretty miserable, lonely and definitely financially tough times on my own until I found someone decent. I know some men can be shits, but I shouldn't have to celebrate my long awaited decent partner any less outwardly ( and if I want to by taking his surname to unite us and our children that I want to be just like him ) because other women like the Op are so entrenched in their narrow minded views that that think I have a bigger duty to other women to keep my own name. Its my life and my kids, I'll name them after my dh if I want to. If I'd had kids with one of my shit exes instead I might name them after me, no big deal because it's my business. If the Op told me off for choosing dhs surname in real life I'd laugh and tell her to fuck off.

Why on earth would you presume that?!

Then that would be choosing her own fathers name for her children over her husbands, which is strange.

I think traditionally there's sort of something nice about a father giving the child their name.

Paternity was something you had to take on faith/trust for a long time. Maternity wouldn't have been in doubt given a woman bore the child, physically. Giving a child their fathers name, its a declaration of paternity. I'm ok with that history.

My maiden name was onions.

I couldn't wait to get rid of it

Hang on, do you realise that you're implying that all other cultures who don't have the convention that the wife takes the husband's name aren't patriarchal... Sorry but I'm just a little bit sceptical of that!

Are you saying you couldn’t be a solid little unit if you all took your name?

And your assumption about double barrelled names is quite prejudiced.

As someone who has given her children their father's surname, it's not about feminism or anything like that, at some point my DP and I will get married and we will all have the same surname. I dont get why people think this is so weird. Most people who aren't married but are in a relationship with the father give the child the father's surname. Why is it such a big deal? Does it affect you what other people name their children? I'm perfectly happy with the "ownership" of my children regardless of their name!

I don't mind being married and us all having the same surname. Although I'm all for women's rights I also like the tradition of a family unit.

I also can't work out what happens with double-barrell names after a few generations e.g

Mary Jones-Smith has baby Daisy-Mae with Steve Ferguson-McDonald

Daisy-Mae Jones-Smith-Feguson-McDonald then has Baby Billie-Jo Jones-Smith-Ferguson-McDonald-Dickson-Dixon-Smyth-Windsor etc etc

Following that line of argument, the father's name isn't really his own name either, is it?

If it holds (some) men's feet to the fire and keeps a form of accountability between them and their children, then it's a good thing. Unfortunately there are way too many feckless, irresponsible fathers about, who happily and readily walk away from their responsibilities. It may only be a symbolic gesture, but they will know they have child/ren walking this earth who they had 50% accountability for creating.

But feminism should be about choice - if you are telling women they can’t/shouldn’t give thier children the fathers name then that is just as bad as being told we should give them the fathers name
we should all be free to make our own choices. What name I decide to give my children is none of your concern

Completely agree, well said.

The unison of a family. Everyone having the same and becoming their own unit

Also this ^^

Novchange I'd probably assume double barrelled name meant unmarried parents too. Primarily because all the children i know with double barrelled names have unmarried parents.

Thats if i bothered thinking about it, which i probably wouldnt. I'm not too fussed about how other people choose to live/love.

Mist people still take paternity on trust. Or are you saying most men are now furtively swabbing their child’s cheeks for their DNA?

Men deigning to acknowledge their own children should not be celebrated as a miracle.

DH and I have been married over 25 years. I kept my own surname and DT’s are double barrelled. Why would you think DT’s were from a family with parents who hadn’t married or that we’d split up?

My sisters thought I was making an un-feminist choice taking my husband's name. They all kept their own on marriage. But all of their children have their husband's name. They didn't even consider giving the surname they kept for themselves to their children. So I don't see they've made any more of a feminist choice than I did.

This shows how sexist the roots of the tradition are - men have their surnames, women only borrow them from the man in charge. Why isn’t the husband’s surname ‘his father’s’ but the woman’s is? Everyone talking about tradition must also recognise that the tradition they are talking about includes legal rights of men over their wives, women not having the vote or the right to work, or to refuse sex within marriage. That all can’t be separated from the ‘tradition’ of women being merged into the husband’s legal identity rather than the other way round. The arguments made in favour which talk about tradition or how women don’t even have their own surname to begin with kind of prove the point. The only real argument is that we all do non ideal things in a world of imperfection and compromise, and for many women this is one of them.

edit to add - the argument that it forges a link with the parent who can’t do womb and breast feeding things is maybe also a reasonable one to make, although I disagree that women doing all the work and men sticking their name on it is the best mechanism for that given how often women keep doing all the work and do actually lose much of their identity and professional status while men… do not. Why can’t men feel connections to their child through cuddling and nappy changes rather than by a public marker?