To think they are ‘𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘩’

[HansBanan]

Okay, I know it's subjective but I'm some what bored of my in-laws down playing this.
My SIL is 28, well educated, 2 children, lives in London. She's married, husband is about 40, a little older maybe, a high earner (250k ish - chief investment officer for a wealth management company).
They are mortgage free, in a large beautiful house (I'm not sure of the logistics of how this is the case but know they are). 1 car, owned outright. They have credit cards but I'm sure they pay them off monthly and mainly use them for the benefits and rewards.
Their children are young so not school age yet, but it's very clearly they sill be privately educated. I'm not sure how much the bonus her husband receives would be but let's assume it's anywhere between 25k - 125k depending on the firm.
They holiday several times a year, almost always business class.

AIBU to think that is ‘𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘩’? My in-laws are all insisting that in London this is just comfortable but I don't buy it! Especially not with their mortgage free home!
I know it's not my business but it irks me

How would you feel if SIL was chattering and speculating about your private business? Next time mil brings it up tell her it’s none of anyone else’s beeswax. Nor is it any of her concern what you choose to spend your money on. For the record our income is similar, mortgage free. No £500 outfits.

Are they polite and friendly? That's the important thing, not how much money they have.

Don't envy anyone who has inherited a house - that means a loved one has died. Many people would rather live in a bedsit and have their relative back - I know I would.

This. People really don't seem to understand what counts as wealthy. If they spent time with actually wealthy people, they'd find out. It is a whole different way of looking at the world.

That would piss me off enough to tell them to stop being muppets.

Not rich based on salary but definitely very comfortable. Especially if it’s all disposable income. Also ,if he’s on that salary in wealth mgmt then very unlikely his bonus is as low as 25k. Will be much higher.

I would say they were well off, or very comfortable. To me, "rich" means asset wealth, not income. Your SIL has paid off their mortgage which means they have a very important asset, but everything else you describe could disappear in three months if the UK entered a recession and they lost their jobs. Many people I know earn more than you describe but have very little left at the end of the month.

I also suspect that your SIL and her husband mix with people who have equivalent income. "Rich" is a relative term, and if they have the same disposable income as their peers then I see why they wouldn't consider themselves rich.

This is not knocking your SIL and her husband. I think it sounds like they have worked really hard for a great life, but I understand their description of their position.

Next time they bring it up why don’t you say to them “well, why don’t you buy it for us then, if it’s so affordable?” It’s a bit rude but sometimes you have to be a bit rude when people aren’t understanding what you’re telling them.

And yes, I would consider them to be rich, I wouldn’t make the distinction between comfortable, well off and rich.

@HansBanan OP as you know already the amount of moola in your sil and bills pockets is irrelevant. your real problem are the very rude comments from pil. in your place I would shut those comments right down without using money as the reason. "its what we prefer" is good or just grey rock them. 🪨 nod and smile, change topic. nod and smile and see something non committal.

if you can be bit of a cow like I am, you can go for offence as defence mode. talk about how much harder it is to get into good unis from private school these days. or how giving children expensive things from a young age can mean they can become materialistic. etc etc question her, doesn't she think its unethical to be jetting here there and everywhere with no consideration for the environment? why waste money in business when it literally takes you to the same place and you can give that money to charity? etc. etc. these are not necessarily my beliefs but might just shut the pil up

In 2023 I would definitely call that very comfortable but not rich. But then I don’t get why the label matters.

Stop engaging in conversation about finances with your in-laws. No talk of their money, no comparisons, no justifications of how you spend money for your nuclear family.

Put down clear boundaries - “I’m not going to discuss our finances or theirs.” If they continue to do so, leave the room or end the conversation. The response to repetitive questions about why you don’t do private school or whatever other expense is “That’s not a something that works for our family budget” and if they keep at it, end the conversation. Don’t bring up your SIL’s finances, don’t complain about yours.

Also some of these family comments are just stupid/ unbelievable. No matter how much money I had I would not buy a young child Ralph Lauren clothes. Very wasteful. Has annyobe actually ever said you have to wear outfits above a certain value?? I find this hard to believe. It’s so demonstrably rude there would be no challenge in going back hard on such a comment.

I wouldn't say they were rich, but I would say they were very well off.

I would stop any comparisons made by your in laws. They are obviously too thick to work things out for themselves.

No one on PAYE is rich. The rich don’t work for other people.

The bar for what is considered is rich in this country is low as people have just accepted low pay and declining lifestyle as a given in the last 25 years due to the mismanagement of the economy.

If you are rich, you never think you are rich unless you are in the top 10 rich people in the world.

Only rich people would consider flying business class several times a year and a £500 child's outfit as normal or expected. They might not want to admit it but they are rich.

This is exactly where my thoughts are on this. Spot on.

Yes they are well off at the moment.

However, if you consider their outgoings, then they are going to have to spend a fuck load of the net salary to afford the private school fees and all the other stuff they're paying. Private school might be £60k per year for 2 kids. And his £250k salary will be chopped down substantially by tax - like almost cut in half. Subtracting the private school fees and the business class holidays (several) from the net salary actually isn't going to leave a gigantic amount. I imagine their council tax is a lot, a family needs a lot of food/heating/clothes and there are car expenses even if it's paid off. Plus house improvements/costs. With their lifestyle, they could very easily burn up that entire salary and save less than a person with a modest salary who is more frugal and doesn't live in London. Or they could easily save none of that.

The thought and worry of those future costs would make me feel sick.
I'm inclined to agree with your MIL.

If I was BIL/SIL, I'd be moving out of London, to a place where he could reasonably commute by train/work from home and near to an excellent state school - as they can easily afford a house in the best location. There are plenty of places where people have £million+++ houses and as a result get a brilliant state education. And then pretend their kid goes to a "bog standard state school" and they are the salt of the earth. But anyway, that's what I'd do.

It's definitely not rich, especially in London.

However, it's "very comfortable"!

Spot-on.
Business class, as the name suggests, used to be for business travel. The rich flew first class or privately. It's just that decades of racing to the bottom has now taken business class travel out of the reach of the comfortable middle class.

Not where I’m from it doesn’t.

Yes, they are rich/wealthy/whatever term anyone prefers.

I can understand why this stupid comparisons would irk you OP. Unfortunately, if PILS are as thick as you describe, there’s no point in trying to reason with them.

The only solution is to spend far less time with them/communicating with them and try to steer clear of discussing your plans/finances or of course SILS.

I would say comfortable. They are coming up to some very expensive years if they chose private school. Will they be able to fund university and house deposits without any issue? That would move you to rich for me.

I object to this tendency to associate London with wealth and silly salaries. The vast majority of people in London don’t have those assets or income. I’m a Londoner, humble mid ranking NHS clinician. I got a bonus once in my life, in the heady days of new labour and it was £5. Most people I know are working hard for salaries that are nowhere near that high. We’re not all working in the city.

As a PP said....is SIL nice and pleasant?! If so...lucky old them! Be happy that someone close to you seems happy and comfortable.

MIL is another problem...

They're comparing themselves to people much richer, therefore consider themselves merely comfortable, not rich.

As they’re mortgage free, and based on his salary/bonus, plus future salary growth and investments, I’d say they can comfortably afford private school, university and house deposits.