Children don’t need car seats?

[IcarusFlies]

Am I completely misunderstanding this? We have DC3 on the way and I’m trying to find a way to have three car seats in the back.

One will be 4.5yo, the other 6.5yo when baby comes. DC1 is over 22kg but under 125cm so, I thought, needs a high backed booster or a booster cushion from before 2017 / after growing to 125cm.

But the Gov website is saying “Children aged 3 or older can sit in the back using an adult belt, if there’s no space for a third seat”?? So I don’t need a third car seat at all, if the whole family of five travels together?

https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-can-travel-without-a-car-seat

NOT debating the safety or wisdom of this, just trying to get my head around the regulations… Surely this can’t be right?

I second those who have said a new car may be inevitable. We had an Audi A4 (basically a Skoda Octavia) and changed for a Ford Galaxy when DC3 came along, as the back seat wasn't great for three people without car seats, let alone with. Not much bigger to drive (and it drives like a car, not a truck), but so much more space and a safe way to get 3 seats in. As the seats are separate in the back, it also avoids complaints about someone's leg 'being on my side of the line....'

Also not exactly glamorous but few 7 seaters are. Great on motorways, we regularly do a 6 hour drive to my parents'.

We have since swapped for a VW sharan (had the galaxy for 11 years) and I would hugely recommend the sliding doors!

It also is ideal when they get rid of the car seats and suddenly leg room is a more pressing issue, which comes around incredibly quickly.

I do question the wisdom of shoehorning the 2nd adult into the middle seat at the back. The main purpose of child-seats as I understand it is to hold the child secure in the event of an accident. In the event of an accident having the 2nd adult stuck between two child-seats and possibly completely unable to help/help remove a child/get out of the car until one of the child-seats is removed (what if there is a fire, they are totally unable to help) doesn't seem too wise to me.

A bigger car seems more sensible instead.

We initially managed with our youngest in a rear facing seat and our older two in forward facing 5 point seats in our Nissan Almera Tino (they haven't made these since 2006 but might be worth checking a Qashqai). The big issue was when our elder two went into HBB and our youngest went into the forward facing 5 point seat because although they fitted (just) it was impossible for the kids to do their own seatbelts so DH spent a Saturday going round all the car dealers trying out fitting our car seats in the back of the cars. Most 7 seaters are too narrow to have 3 comfortably in the second row but the Ford S-Max was OK (the Galaxy has more leg room but as a short family this is less of an issue for us). If you are happy to use the third row of seats you have more options but boot space is also important with 3DC so we wanted them all in the second row.

Surely the focus point of any thinking around car seats is the safety of the children? just being able to squeeze second or third choice seats in, moving to booster seats rather than HBB, youngsters being in the front rather than the back of the car etc all compromise their safety should an accident happen.

This won’t just be a problem for a few months until your oldest grows a little taller. Don’t forget that you’re likely to start having friends round for tea, sharing lifts for activities etc before very long so the more adaptable your car the better.

i’m another one singing the praises of cars that have 3 separate seats in the back. They offer the most choice, flexibility and therefore safety. We have had a Ford Galaxy and now have a Peugeot 5008. The boot seats aren’t used all that often but when they are they too can accommodate forward facing car seats if needed.

If you don't have a full sized seat in the centre, then it's often better to put one child seat in the centre (if manual allows) and one on the side and then the adult on the other side.

The whole "adult won't be able to help" is a bit moot because it's not like you have to carry a second adult with you on every journey? But if the adult is totally wedged in between the two seats, then I suppose theoretically there is a chance that the adult's body is going to put the whole adult weight of pressure on the seat, which it definitely isn't designed to take. It's not an ideal solution anyway and not just for comfort reasons.

This is definitely a situation with lots of non-ideal solutions where you have to pick the best of a bad lot. Unfortunately I do think some of the car safety groups/pages seem to have this attitude of ideal safety at all times and I don't think that's helpful. Sometimes you do have to weigh up some non-ideal solutions. Not discussing these at all means that you end up without clear discussions of totally unsafe solutions (e.g. letting 6yo put the seatbelt under her arm so it doesn't rub her neck as she is boosterless - OP I know you did not suggest this - just an example of a solution many innocently think is safe and logical).

A backless booster again is legal but not safe. Change your car or have a squashed adult they are the only choices if you value your children's lives.

That's exactly what I was thinking, not a good idea at all

Come to the south of Italy, where babies are transported on dashboards, whilst toddlers jump about like monkeys in the back. How they manage to hold a phone conversation at the same time is beyond me.

Seconding these guys, they are absolutely fantastic! I've called them a few times and they will spend ages talking you through options on the phone, and we went instore once and they spent about an hour actually installing seats in our car to check things would fit. We buy all of our car seats from them now too, they are absolutely brilliant people and passionate about car seat safety!

If Op can't fit a car seat in the middle she probably can't fit an adult in either.

Have you ever tried to get in the gap between seats?

I just don't think that's true most adults can shoe-horn themselves in. My husband and father in law can't even get close so I'm guessing the majority of men couldn't. As before, I'm smaller than average with a bigger car than average (have a rear facing and front facing seat for full disclosure). I can get my hips in, just, but my shoulders physically won't go in the gap.

ask for help on here https://www.facebook.com/groups/779970192933662/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=1420742312189777

Rather than trying to shoehorn 3 seats in an unsuitable car take the following approach.....

1. Your kids need to be as safe as possible, so work out the "right" seats.
2. Buy a car that fits the seats.

Because basically your choice is to buy smaller/less protective seats, or to change the car.

FfS just buying a new car is not a viable option for many people, parents also don't need a car that is adaptable for picking up school friends.

It should be possible to get a group 0 and two hbb in the back seat, no squished adults and no less value on my children's lives.

This!

We had to change cars when we had our 3rd (got an S Max originally as you can fit 3 proper car seats across the back).

The law is a practical way to make it work, however the risk assessment sits with you & up to you how you decide to travel (but the law supports you travelling together in 1 car as a family.)

You need to buy a car that fits your family, not expect your family to cram into a car that's no longer safe for them, no matter what the law says.

Would you prefer the law to say you have to change your car?

I agree it's very difficult but the op won't buy a new car so it's that or put her dc life at risk.

You need to leave the passenger airbag ON. Refer to your car’s manual.

There are some great car seat groups on facebook that are really helpful, esp the rear facing ones.

The multimac scores very poorly for safety. Im sure there will be a way to fit all three and you'll get some good specialist advice. I believe little peas is a good retailer who will offer a solution :) good luck

Some absolute corkers here, among the helpful advice. The chances of being in a car crash are not high in themselves. Life is a risk assessment. Honestly…

We’ve agreed to go and look at some 7 seaters, as an educational exercise. Noted re the front airbag. We’ve got a MaxiCosi pebble for the baby, can’t remember the other two seats but I’ll check DC2’s one - I think it’s a Group 0-3 one that goes through to 12 yo, but will check I’m using it correctly. Thanks for all the advice!

The chances of being in a car crash are not high in themselves.

But the consequences of being in a crash can be fatal and/or life changing.

Absolutely- and that’s why I’m here asking for advice on how best to manage risk within the constraints I have in life, and the law.

Boostapak are legal from 15kg (old style regs) and only 36cm wide. Not ideal but surely safer then nothing. My mum can fit 2 of these plus the narrowest toddler chair into the back of a Hindu i10.

There will be a solution, as I said above we found one for the Audi A3, albeit 12 years ago.

I will add that this wasn't our main car, but I wanted a solution that worked if we needed to be in that car.

The fact you are here asking shows you do care about the safety of your children.