Children don’t need car seats?

[IcarusFlies]

Am I completely misunderstanding this? We have DC3 on the way and I’m trying to find a way to have three car seats in the back.

One will be 4.5yo, the other 6.5yo when baby comes. DC1 is over 22kg but under 125cm so, I thought, needs a high backed booster or a booster cushion from before 2017 / after growing to 125cm.

But the Gov website is saying “Children aged 3 or older can sit in the back using an adult belt, if there’s no space for a third seat”?? So I don’t need a third car seat at all, if the whole family of five travels together?

https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-can-travel-without-a-car-seat

NOT debating the safety or wisdom of this, just trying to get my head around the regulations… Surely this can’t be right?

Figure out the widest seat and put it in the front, adult in the back. Switch off the airbag if it’s the baby

Agree . We tried to fit an adult in the back between a toddler seat and a HBB for a short drive and it was physically impossible. Had to do 2 trips instead!

Ah yes, noted re the airbag if using an HBB in the front.

I think we may struggle with an adult in the middle at the back, space-wise.

Thanks for recommendations re experts, will see what more I can find out.

The laws on carseats don't align with what's safe, including the one that says your child can forward-face after 15 months. Car Seat Safety UK is a valuable Facebook group if you're after advice on this.

Definitely join one of the car seat groups on Facebook for advice.

Please don’t put a child in the front seat in a HBB. This is very dangerous. Much safer to have a child in a rear seating car seat with the air bag off.

You could post on the Car Seat advice UK Facebook page, people post stuff like this there a lot and there are helpful solutions. for the baby you might find that using the seatbelt rather than an isofix base helps, you might be able to get the baby in the middle seat and a slimline hbb on either side.

We like many others had to opt to get a bigger car. We thought we'd have a wide enough car with our A6 estate but that was really tight still and difficult to get car seats in. We did buy myfold car seats which did fit but we werent happy with how flimsy they feel so we now have them only for emergency or very short trips in other peoples cars. We ended up trading in and getting a 7 seater so everyone could be comfortable and safe on long journeys as we do a lot of travelling to see family through the year. I feel its a minefield with the law though everything seems quite conflicting and I can't really make head nor tail of what's allowed and what isn't. I'm just grateful all our kids are really tall for their ages so it's unlikely we'll still have to have boosters or car seats until they're 11.

The problem is the 3 backs together, so you might manage 2 x forward facing on the outside seat with the rear facing baby seat in the middle or the other way if your middle child is still RF.

We went for a 5 seat Renault scenic, as the rear seats all slide back and forth independently so you can juggle. It also had 3 x isofix. It was otherwise, quite a terrible car.😅

Genuine question (as my DDs are older now) can you now get seats to rear face at 6.5 yo 125cm like the OP's DC? I can't visualise it.

Most adults, unless significantly overweight can shoehorn themselves into the middle space OP. It's far from comfortable and may require them getting in before fitting the second car seat but should be possible. Inconvenient but if changing car not possible may be a good temp solution until DC1 is over 135 to take that middle space.

Eldest is already in HBB. Middle child is 20kg so can’t go into HBB yet, is in a five point harness forward facing car seat.

I think I need to try a few iterations and see… could put the baby in the front, rear facing. I’m not worried about the trips with me plus 3 kids to be honest, someone (baby or eldest) can go in the front for at least a year… at which point eldest can switch to backless booster and go at the back in the middle, I reckon.

The issue is if all 5 of us need to travel, which is every weekend locally (London) and probably once every 3 weeks at least further afield involving a dual carriage way or motorway.

I’m waiting for an admin to approve me into the Fb group so will ask there too.

If your car really can't fit 3 seats you need to get a new one. It doesn't really matter what you'd prefer or want to do. You chose to have 3 children and in that it means you have to do what you can to keep them safe. That means a car with 3 carseats if you choose to drive them all by car.

We also had to change cars to fit 3 in - i had twins so had 2 baby seats & large extended rear facing seats (rf til 5) & then 2 large rear facing ones & the high back booster. I still have my twins in high backed boosters at 8 & now my oldest has none.

we can’t fit any combination of our seats including an adult in the middle of the hbbs (i’m 5”3 size 8 & can’t) unless its a 7 seat car with individual seats. My friend fit 3 narrow hbbs (turned her kids forward at 18 months and fully out of them at 6 so a lot earlier than me) & by not being fussed on brand she got the 3 in the back of a vw touran.

my husband used to have an octavia and it wasn’t doable nor was it in a discovery sport so i got a new car. we have have had both vw sharan & now c4 grande picasso. We had a kia sorrento as a courtesy car last year and with 2 seats in the back couldn’t fit someone in between. My oldest had to squeeze in the back boot seats so although 7 seats not as good as the ones with individual back seats you can move. Without changing car you will struggle but if you aren’t fussy there are doable options which someone specialist can hopefully advise on or others on the car seat forums who have managed it but for me it wasn’t worth the risk and so i got rid of the car i love to drive massive 7 seats which have plenty of space!

We had the same problem, possibly smaller age gap, and my eldest was slight so I wanted to keep her in a seat.

My dad has a Skoda Octavia, and you cannot get 3 seats across the back. Halfords actually refused to even try as they 'knew' they couldn't. You can't.

We had to change cars, there are less than 10 cars in the UK that take 3 across the back (and I ruled out a fair few based on crazy prices!). We bought an smax, 3 full size seats across back (plenty of room plus 2 smaller seats in boot if wanted) love it, it's been amazing and one of the best buys I've ever made.

As you don't want to change car or allow 6 year to travel without a booster (sensible) the only solution is to put the eldest in the front and one adult in the middle seat at the back. Most adults don't like this which is why a lot of families of 5 (is included) upgrade to a 7 seater. We could fit five car seats in the back of our Seat Alhambra. I've never seen a five seat car that has a full size middle seat. But Alhambra/Galaxy etc have three full size separate seats across the middle.

Thanks @Madameprof, I think your summary is right. It’s just taking me a while to accept it!

I think the challenge is that the period during which eldest can’t go on a backless booster at the back is going to be about 6 months… in the longer term we need to think about whether we want to change car, I suppose. I guess I should buy a backless booster and check that it fits with two seats at the back, to be sure.

What car seats are the 2 in at the minute, and height/weights of children? Maybe someone can suggest alternative seats.

You can, though they are right at the limit of those seats, so not much sense getting one.

Here is a picture for example - this is the Besafe Stretch.

We fitted 3 seats in the back of a Nissan Note and Toyota Verso. 2 high backed boosters and baby seat.

The exception is there to avoid making people criminals for not being able to afford a bigger car, or if you only have 3 kids in occasionally (Granny, second car). Few cars can fit three seats.

Technically the middle of the back seat is the safest place to be in a car. Furthest away from all impacts and the child would get some protection from the seats either side of them

The safest option is to upgrade your car to one with space for 3 seats, and 3 isofix points. I-size seats are narrower than the older seats so your more likely to be able to get 3 in.

You don't need to turn the air bag off for a forward facing seat... Just put the seat as far back on the runners as possible. The airbag only needs to be turned off/deactivated for a rearward facing seat.

If middle child is 20kg he shouldn't be in a group 1 with harness, he is over the weight limit.

We had an Audi A3 when #3 arrived and our big two were very similar ages, baby in the middle in a group 0 and a Britax Adventure on the other two seats so they kind of jigsawed. The adventure was one of the narrowest on the market.

I was about to say that I'm not sure DS is 20kg now at 5 and a half. 18ish? He's been in a HBB for ages.

I don't think they sell the Adventure anymore, but it is the base size that is important, for example the Graco has a wide, solid base so probably won't fit.

The baby seat also had to be belt fitted.

Few adults will fit between the seats and it needs to be a fairly big car to have a hope.

My mum is a tiny lady, (she really is tiny fits in a HBB) we shoe horn her in the gap between the seats for local 10-15 min journeys. But much more than that we put oldest in the front with seat Mum and I in the back with youngest.

OP you are correct about the exception for three children in the middle.

However you are (slightly) wrong about the min age/height for backless booster seats. The 125cm / 22kg only applies to new model approvals. The design of backless boosters really hasn't changed very much if at all since the 1980s, so this isn't a category where new models are being approved all the time (like for example infant carrier seats).

There are dozens of models already on sale which were approved before 2016 and so are legal to use from 15kg upwards. Generally I would not advise this and would say you should stick with the 125cm/22kg anyway, but this is a good example of an exception to that rule, because backless booster is better than no booster.

There is also a sort of unwritten rule that says if the law says you can legally do a less-protective solution, then there's nothing stopping you from using the more protective solution if everything fits.

Lastly I doubt police officers are carrying around a tape measure. If you get stopped they will see the outer two children in child seats, the middle child in a seatbelt, tick a box and wave you off. It would be different if it was a toddler bouncing around in the middle with no seat - they would likely stop you then. But nobody is going to quibble over 1-2cm.

But I do agree with others that if we can help you find a solution with three proper seats maybe that would be better? Someone recently told me on another thread they managed to fit Kinderkraft Junior in between two other child seats. It's not a seat I'd normally look at, but for the middle, the most important thing is the belt positioning, not the side impact protection.

Maxi Cosi seats are also very slim. You may actually find that a backless booster doesn't help because the problem is the bases of the other two seats, not the shoulder part.

There are some infant carrier car seats which have belt fitted bases. This was the key that I found when we had to fit Group 1 seat + infant carrier + teenager/adult in the back of a similar sized car.

Is your 4.5yo in a high back or harness?

Multimac is not as disastrous as a lot of people say - I don't know why it's suddenly attracted a load of ire. That might well be a good solution in your situation as your older two children are over 4 (so would be fine forward facing) and the baby can rear face up to 13kg in the baby seat which is usually over 2 - I did have a photo of a small 3 year old in it. It is probably a lot of money if you were to then stop using it after 2 years though. There are definitely some downsides, the low rear facing time, the baby seat is not really portable and won't go on a pushchair, the belt fit for children who have outgrown the harness isn't fantastic. It's 15+ years old so it's never going to give you the protection of 3x cutting edge modern seats. But it did use the best safety features available at the time and therefore is better than 3x basic/cheap separate seats that you can buy today, which are probably using the safety features of 20+ years ago.