Struggling to make ends meet as a junior doctor. AIBU?

[HK3444]

Struggling to make ends meet. Rent has gone up, food bills are going up and struggling to support my kids.

I’m someone worked really hard through medical school, it felt like endless exams and accumulated student debt with the hope that I’d be able to support my family comfortably at the end of the degree and but also feel job satisfaction bettering the health of others.

Not sure what this was all for… can’t believe I’m in this situation as a doctor

Wow. Sorry this has been turned into a race to the bottom OP. Completely sympathise.

Sadly it's clear that you don't work in the NHS or have close relatives that do. Doctors are now not considered high status in the UK and the amount that has to be paid in indemnity, GMC fees and exams mean that most other professions (and other jobs that don't even require a degree) are more lucrative. It is honestly a thankless and relentless grind that you would not want your children to be embroiled in.
Fortunately young British trained doctors are seeing the light and are not hanging around to be abused by the public and the government. They're now abroad in New Zealand, Australia and Canada.

@HK3444 Sounds like a lot of your critics on this thread think they could hack it in your position and could just breeze through medical school, postgraduate exams, and getting absolutely flogged for 15+ years. Honestly, just leave if you have to. It’s really not worth it, even if that means taking a lower salary. It sounds counter intuitive now but you will find so much freedom in having more time and at normal hours of day too.

Completely agree with you! The things I find ridiculous are the fees that you mentioned plus parking etc. I have never heard of an organisation charging it’s employees to pay for parking. Just bizarre! There are a lot of expat doctors who don’t have family ties in the UK who are looking to move to Australia and the middle east where the pay packets for doctors are far more lucrative. The NHS is going to suffer long term, no one wants to stay here any more as even on a doctors pay one is struggling to make ends meet when you should be comfortably off!

Solidarity, OP.

As for “you should have known better (about wages)”. I know several young people studying medicine in the UK. They come from a different system and were not familiar with UK currency and value of money. But they wanted to study medicine in the UK. Their plan had been to stay on, but as graduation approaches they are more uncertain. The UK doesn’t treat its doctors that well.

@TwoUnderTwitTwoo
OP hasn't shared any of her? circumstances so people would be finding it hard to understand them, I agree.

A little bit more info would be helpful.

they are national figures as it is a national pay scale.

I find doctors too low paid for what they do, I really don't understand it.

I had a friend ten years ago who trained in the NHS to become a CBT therapist. I could swear she was already on 30k even though she was still training. And she would have moved up bands once training was complete. I find this totally disproportionate to what medical doctors earn.

You OP need to take some accountability for your situation though as does anyone need to do. The salary wouldn't have come as a surprise and you chose to have kids etc. It would be hard for anyone but those are the life choices you made. Many families live on this salary or less.

You do deserve to earn more though for the work you do. It's a complete mystery to me why salaries are so comparably low.

The thing is there is context to consider...

Given the cost of living crisis there are those struggling to pay rent on a small, overcrowded flat and feed their children without the help of food banks, thos people are struggling to pay basic bills and support their children in basics.

If that's your position that's truly awful.

Then there are those struggling to service aortgage on a 5 bed house and keep up with private school fees and holidays abroad annually so while they are struggling to pay their specific bills they've a fair bit of downsizing they can do before they really can't make ends meet, they just need to be more realistic about the ends of. The current climate. Where money doesn't go as far for any of us as it fif a decade ago and even 2 well paid professional files are not living in the luxury we were promised. It's not truly not making ends meet though is it?

So what your salary and lifestyle expectations are is relevant to the context of whether we just agree your role should be better compensated or we wonder how junior do tors are surviving at all.

I have dealt with an F2 and an ITM3 doctor in the last three years. They were both unspeakably arrogant, reductive and didn't know their stuff. On that basis, I absolutely do not support the strikes. Junior Dr's need to raise their game imo.

The consultants I have dealt with however are worth their weight in gold and gave a far better and more respectful bedside manner.

To the pp who claims to be a teacher with 20 years' experience. How? My dd is newly qualified and on £34k ish, aged 25. Already working out how long it will take her to be HoY, Head of Department, etc.

Agree, by this logic, anyone who espouses it can never complain about their own salary 😂 and also be fine with being paid in claps for good measure.

@C0untDucku1a Doesn't reflect the reality of what teachers actually come with (take home pay). But anyway, this thread isn't about that.
Junior doctors should be getting paid far more, they shouldn't be struggling financially. They should be able to afford their own homes. It's not right.

I don't understand how there are pen pushers in the NHS making more than the doctors. The doctors and nurses all deserve a big raise-no nurse should be making under 40 k in my opinion for the hard work that they do.

I am guessing a junior doctor makes 40k in the UK and I don't think this is a fair wage for someone working the kind of hours that they have to put in after all that training and then the responsibility of the job. I would say doctors should start on at least 80k, however I am in the US and my doctor friends make 170-350k a year and they shake their heads when I tell them that a doctor in the UK makes as little as they do as they just cannot see why anyone would go through all that training for such a low wage. It is completely unfair to expect doctors to work in the way they do for such a modest wage and it needs changing.

Many people have been caught off-guard by recent cost of living hikes.

I earn more than a JD no degree. 35 hours a week - can do overtime at double pay.

Do you have a clear career path that will lead to an equivalent of a consultant salary?

@HK3444 I think the reason that so many doctors come from medical families is because the system assumes a lot of support from relatives.
It's not helped by the longstanding attitude that any industry with more female joiners than male starters is vocational and therefore doesn't need to be paid realistically.

@RosesAndHellebores London? My friend is an ECT on a huge amount less than your daughter.
Give her five years she'll change her mind... teaching is hell.

So many people are saying they’re not paid enough because they’re ‘flogged’ and overworked etc. I agree, but flogging and overworking people no matter the remuneration is unethical and will result in toxic working cultures. I would rather see money distributed to remove some of the flogging (like reducing the working week) than just increasing pay to make up for what is essentially an antiquated system that doesn’t always make the most of having the best and the brightest.

Although I think doctors should have a pay increase, I am always suspicious of any thread where the person does not even say what they are earning, but complaining about their pay.

I hate this. It’s always such a race to the bottom on mumsnet or any social media.

a junior doctor can be someone who has just finished their training… or someone with years experience but not at consultant level.

the amount of responsibility that a doctor has, and the sheer amount of work involved getting to that stage should be rewarded. To even get near training to be a doctor you are probably the top 1% in terms of exam results. you could go work in finance and be earning megabucks.

And I’m bloody horrified that your employer doesn’t cover your employment costs.

just to point out for those of you who are moaning that OP is probably loaded because you’re surviving on NMW with 5 kids blah blah : you are quite being topped up with benefits which bring you to the same take home as OP once you take into account tax, ni, pension deductions, student loans, childcare, professional fees etc)

@Cmonluv - are you suggesting that junior doctors on £14 an hour are servicing a mortgage on a 5 bed house, private school fees and annual holidays abroad 🤣 I’m really not sure what your point is.

I support the strikes 100%. It’s in no one’s interest to maintain the recruitment and retention crisis we have currently. Doctors trained in the UK are well regarded internationally and at the moment there isn’t much to keep them here.

I’m a nurse and appreciate the level of responsibility and hours are not reflected in your pay.

I do agency full time now. I couldn’t afford to work full time nhs plus nhs doesn’t care about its workers. We’re all just a number to be worked to the max. One nurse does the work of 2 nurses, maybe 3 now.

If there is any way you can get your hours adjusted to allow you to do some locum work (and work less overall) this would make a difference to your work/ life balance.

Work less, more money, more time with your kids.

How is that possible? Are you very part time? A starting salary for a trainee gp is around 42k.

As a couple with 1 child, our combined income isn’t that.. and we don’t qualify for anything.

Me too. And I’ll be honest, I don’t work particularly hard, nor in a stressful environment, nor with a lot of responsibility